On Sun, 2009-12-27 at 13:22 -0800, Robbo wrote:

> 'Limits to growth' ideas are dangerous bullshit 

Really.

Energy use (or anything else) that grows at 3% a year doubles roughly
every 24 years.

Every hear of the chessboard and the prince?

The prince agreed to pay one grain of wheat on the first square of the
chessboard, and two grains on the next square, and four grains on the
third square, and continue doubling for all the squares of the chess
board. As soon as he agreed to this, the prince was bankrupt.

Is there enough wheat on the Earth today to pay for the 64th square? Do
calculate.

Let us change the problem a little bit, to four chessboards. Is there
enough wheat in the universe to pay the 256th square?

Let me help you out. 2^256 is about 10^77. The Universe has somewhere
around 10^80 atoms. A grain of wheat has about 10^23 atoms in it. So a
Universe that was nothing but wheat would have have about 10^57 grains
of wheat. A lot, to be sure, but not enough. Not even close to enough.
Even if the universe is all wheat.

Staying within known physics, (meaning no direct mass to energy
conversion or faster than light transportation), but allowing for fusion
energy, how many doublings of energy use before all the hydrogen in the
oceans has been converted to helium? Ignore the little problem of
getting rid of the waste heat.

Extracting uranium from ocean water might well be practical. If so,
nuclear energy could support current total energy usage for about 5
billion years, much longer than the Earth will be habitable. If energy
production from nuclear grew at 1%, how long would this amount of energy
last. Do ignore the little problem of the ocean needing time to be
recharged uranium content by rivers, and the other little problem of
getting rid of the waste heat.

Agree that there are limits? 

Then let us get a little closer in time. Oil is somewhere between 1/4
and 1/2 drilled, pumped and burnt. We almost surely can't do another
doubling of oil production. What replaces oil? How?


-- 
Phil Hays <[email protected]>

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