In part, I agree. But here we are also debating the dominant languages in Goan discourse. It's perhaps best not to mix up that with the origins of each language (or their influence on Goa, at different points of history).
A look at 20th century Goa would suggest that the dominant language kept shifting multiple times across that very period. From Portuguese to Romi Konkani (esp among expat communities in places like Bombay) to English (among the more upwardly mobile, and those from Bardez with access to the century-old schools in the triangle of Arpora-Parra-Saligao). Then to Marathi (more post-1961, but not bereft of it before) and English. Finally ending solidly in the pro-Devanagari camp after this was sealed with the post-1987 Official Language Act. So, political power shifts have to be seen in relation to language dominance and preference. The boost given to English after 1961 was both because the new ascendent officialdom (and some part of the expat Goan community) was more comfortable in that language. Our debates here partly reflect that reality. Including this very thread. But we might not be able to go so far as to say any language was never the language of Goans in Goa. Because (1) language realities keep shifting (2) people in small communities like Goa are often borrowing other languages, to use as if these were their own. Goa, and especially its diaspora, has been known for its high level of multilingualism. Goans and members of the Goan diaspora have written in diverse languages across the centuries. These include: Konkani, English, Portuguese, Marathi, Hindi, Sanskrit, Pali, Kannada, Sinhala, Tamil, French, German, Spanish, Norwegian, Latin, Kiswahili, Swedish, Italian, among others. People compare what the Russians and Japanese and Jews have managed with their respective languages. But I think this might not be an apt comparison, especially given the size and numbers of Konkani (and also complications like its multiplicity of scripts). On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 at 14:44, John de Figueiredo <[email protected]> wrote: > I agree with you, Frederick. > The language of all Goans (as Mourão Garcez Palha reminded us) is Konkani. > The Goans learned those other languages out of necessity. Some Goans also > spoke Portuguese (and this sub -group included Hindu men and women), also > out of historical fate and necessity. What is remarkable is that the Goans > mastered those other languages and many Goans spoke and wrote in them > better than the native speakers of those languages. Many Goans (like > Francisco Correia Afonso, for example) gave brilliant speeches and wrote > wonderful essays in Portuguese even though they never had any formal > education in that language (except, maybe, for elementary school). > My point is that English was never the language of the Goans in Goa. It > was imposed upon the Goans after the annexation of Goa. > The prime example of the forced British ( or Indo-British) acculturation > of the Goans is what happened to Escola Medica. This School (like many > other schools in Goa) was eliminated even though there was a plan in place > to improve it and maintain the teaching in Portuguese approved by the > central Government of India. It was replaced by a Medical College where > medicine is taught, not in Portuguese, not in Konkani, but in English, the > language of the British colonialists (and racists!). > Compare this to what the Jews did in Israel. They resurrected Hebrew, a > dead language. Let us not forget that it took demonstrations, protests, > even deaths, for Konkani to be the official language of Goa. As far as I > know, it did not take protests, demonstrations, and deaths for Hebrew to > be resurrected and become the official language of Israel. > Sorry for this long digression. > John M. de Figueiredo > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 4, 2023, at 8:14 PM, fredericknoronha <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I know people who also argue that it's also impossible to study Goa > without knowing literary and spoken Konkani (at least two or more > scripts... not to forget its many dialects), plus Marathi (and we are not > even talking about Modi, the script which almost everyone has forgotten... > but the State authorities have made some feeble efforts to re-teach > recently). > > And they're all right. > > Now how exactly is one human being will meet such challenges in one > lifetime and is going to be so linguistically endowed (though some are) > really beats me. I'm sure there must be some workaround. But, on the other > hand, I've been waiting for Google Translate for simply too long, and while > the Konkanverter.com can do some passable transliterations (between Kannada > script, Devanagari, Romi and Malayalam but not the right-to-left written > Perso-Arabic), its results can sometimes also be unintendedly comical. > > Goa (whose people wrote in a total of 22 languages, across the 20th > century) indeed deserves a Translation Centre, that looks at multiple > languages and scripts too, involving not just people working on literature > but the Humanities and even possibly the Sciences. FN > > PS: This is not a case for monolingualism. Or even bilingualism. > > On Tuesday, 5 December 2023 at 06:33:13 UTC+5:30 John M. de Figueiredo > wrote: > >> Place in cultural history? >> It is impossible to understand the history of Goa without knowing >> Portuguese. This is one reason why Charles Boxer and Panduronga >> Pissurlencar were so successful. They knew Portuguese. >> Translations, especially of old documents, are hopeless. >> Traduttore, traditore, >> John M. de Figueiredo >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 4, 2023, at 5:42 PM, 'Nuno Cardoso da Silva' via Goa-Research-Net < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear Eugene, >> >> I do not have the possibility of translating all of them, but I would be >> happy to translate the one you felt would be of greater interest to you. >> Maybe other people could help with others. >> >> Please do not take offense, but I sometimes wonder why more Goan people >> do not take the trouble to learn some Portuguese. It is the sixth most >> spoken language in the world and it must for sure have a place in your >> cultural history. >> >> All the best >> >> Nuno Cardoso da Silva >> >> >> *Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2023 at 11:36 PM >> *From:* "Eugene Correia" <[email protected]> >> *To:* "Goa-Research-Net" <[email protected]> >> *Subject:* [GRN] Pamphlets >> >> Going through some of my collections I found some pamphlets, mostly in >> Portuguese. I don’t read or understand Portuguese. These are mostly from >> Portuguese government departments or agencies. >> >> Here they are: >> >> >> >> 1. Goa na Historia da Civilizacao, Dr. Socrates da Costa, August 14, >> 1947. The doctor was an MP, I suppose. >> >> 2. Principios duma reforma agraria (Communidades de Goa). Discurso >> proferido por Sua Ex O Governador Geral, 22 Setembrro de 1946.. >> >> 3.Principes et Institutions de E’Etat Nouveau Portugais (Le Portugal >> D’Aujord’Hui) >> >> 4. A HEROINAS DE DIU (GRANDES PORTUGUESAS) >> >> 5. With Friendliness (On the Plane of Principles) (Coleccao de >> Divulgacao e Cultura) >> >> 6. O Melhor Caminho (The Best Way) by Cultura (with English translation) >> >> 7. Independencia de Portugal — 1150, 1640, 1940 (Edicoes da Comissao >> Nacional) >> >> 8. 20 Years of Mighty Achievements (28th May 1926 — 28th May 1945) In >> English. >> >> 9. The Rights of Portuugese India (A lecture delivered at the Sociedade >> de Geografia in Lisbon, on March 14, 1950) Alberto Xavier. In English. >> >> 10. Here It Is Portugal Coleccao Divulgacaoe Culura. Speeches by Joao de >> Lucena, Portuguese Consul at Bombay. At a meeting held on 31st October >> 1949. One on Assertions of Loyralty of the Goan Community of Madras: by FX >> Fernandes, resident of Madras; We Goans, speeech broadcast on the night of >> Sept 20th, 1949 by Dr. Socrates da Costa, President of the “Uniao National >> and Deputy of the Portiuguese India in the National Assembly. Also writing >> by Menezes Braganza. >> >> 11. Ao Cabo de um ano de caminho, Dr. Jose Bossa, July 1, 1947. >> >> 12. A Lusiranizacao de Goa, Artigo original de Mariano Saldo. >> >> 13. Portugal and its Overseas Provinces, the Case of Goa. Agencia Geral >> do Ultramar. Excerpt from Dr. Salazar’s address to his council of ministers >> in July 1953. >> >> 14. Portugal and the Far East, Statements of policy by the President of >> the Council of Ministers. >> >> >> >> Does anyone has time to translate the Portuguese ones for me or for us? >> >> >> >> >> >> Eugene Correia >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Goa-Research-Net" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAJhbo_7aHM6ONSOPS4dMLSfWgWX%3DN%2B248fCBK1TJo_MuPCtQpg%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAJhbo_7aHM6ONSOPS4dMLSfWgWX%3DN%2B248fCBK1TJo_MuPCtQpg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Goa-Research-Net" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> >> To view this discussion on the web, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/trinity-dc68120b-00d2-4601-a2c9-1aad82a12b64-1701694333522%403c-app-mailcom-bs07 >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/trinity-dc68120b-00d2-4601-a2c9-1aad82a12b64-1701694333522%403c-app-mailcom-bs07?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Goa-Research-Net" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/380c3e0f-fc90-43fb-b560-f9c3476bb68en%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/380c3e0f-fc90-43fb-b560-f9c3476bb68en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Goa-Research-Net" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/DB264926-F41D-45AF-954A-5A58B5216917%40sbcglobal.net > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/DB264926-F41D-45AF-954A-5A58B5216917%40sbcglobal.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. 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