John, When I had landed up in Goa in the 1980's I knew only Portuguese (my mother tongue) and intermediate French. I was honoured to had been taught English via Portuguese by Tensing's dad, the late Prof Lourdino Rodrigues. He did warn both my brother and myself that we would forget Portuguese in a matter of a year or so! Well, roll on many years, in fact about 4 decades later to be precise, we were still OK with our Portuguese - as we spoke with each other and with elder family members - and also picked up Konkani to be able to speak with village neighbours... But the French unfortunately slowly died off (apart from a very hilarious incident at a Panjim bus stop once), my French completely vanished, as I had nobody to speak with. After having graduated from the Engineering College in Farmagudi, and having worked on construction sites, I had discovered that the steel guys speak Malayalam, the concrete guys speak Kannada, the wood shuttering guys speak Hindi and local electrical guys speak Konkani. So had to learn a bit of all of these to get the work done! Today, I have realized that it is impossible to 'forget' the mother tongue, as long as it is spoken at different levels (conversational, educational, research, etc) and any other language learnt but not spoken/read/written regularly is often forgotten unless practised - but it can be revived anytime, as the 'code' is stored as electrical signals somewhere in a remote part of the brain... Hence, I am trying to revive my French now by declaring 2023 as French only Fridays (with my younger son, so that we both improve on our conversational skills), and Portuguese only Thursdays (with him too, so that he learns the language). We have both sticking to this timetable and it is working well. Oh yes, also going through old script Mandarin to be able to decipher the writing on the old Chinese stamps which I collect. Lucky to have a couple of elder Chinese ladies at my allotment to help me with the tones, something quite tricky to get it right. Regards, Joao Paulo Cota
________________________________ From: 'Pedro Mascarenhas' via Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]> Sent: 08 December 2023 14:37 To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GRN] Portuguese for non Portuguese researchers John I completely agree with you when you say “knowing these languages very helpful at everything”. It is very useful to speak several languages to understand “the other”, to break down barriers. The difficulty arises when, a student in Goa, after studying a language (let's say Russian) and lives in Panaji or Mapuça and does not have at least one friend or neighbor (or neighbour) who speaks that language, how can he keep the flame alive? See this example. Years ago, a cousin of mine attended an intensive Portuguese course taught by Instituto Camões in Panaji. When I went to Goa, I discovered that he only knew two phrases: BU DIA and UBRIGAD. (BOM DIA e OBRIGADO…Good morning and thank you). And he has a diploma from the Institute hanging on the wall that states “Frequentou o curso de português…he attended the Portuguese course” The parents, siblings and neighbors speak English, Konkani and Hindi and zero Portuguese. I speak Konkani without ever having studied the language because my parents spoke it in Mozambique. I'm an exception among my friends who only speak Portuguese. Escolac guellear puro? Ulloupak ani konnuim aslear boreak poddta, maka oxem dista. On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 07:21:29 PM GMT, John de Figueiredo <[email protected]> wrote: Pedro, I respectfully disagree. I speak Portuguese, Spanish, French, and Konkani fluently and do not use these languages daily, but I find knowing these languages very helpful at everything I do. John Sent from my iPhone On Dec 7, 2023, at 10:45 AM, 'Pedro Mascarenhas' via Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]> wrote: In Portuguese secondary schools in Mozambique in the 60s and 70s it was mandatory to study French for 5 years and English for 3 years. Goan students gave more importance to English than French, because of Elvis Presley, the Beatles, and Hollywood films. It was wasted time: French from 1st to 5th year; English from 3rd to 5th year). Nowadays, if someone learns Portuguese in Goa, in theory, and not practicing it daily, it is useless. On Tuesday, December 5, 2023 at 09:16:04 AM GMT, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]> wrote: I second Sandra here. It is absolutely impossible to do research on Goa if one does not have at least a rudimentary knowledge of this language. Even seasoned translators will get translations wrong and unless you can check translations for accuracy with the benefit of context, it does not work. Having said that, it is not impossible to acquire a rudimentary understanding of this language within a fairly short time, and I suspect within two to three years of continued effort, one can become adept at this language which was most Catholic Goans is vaguely familiar and hidden in cryptomnesia. Best, Selma On Tuesday, 5 December 2023 at 06:15:11 GMT, sandra lobo <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Helga. For years I have been defending that unless, at least for academic purposes, Portuguese is considered as a Goan language, necessary to be learned by students/researchers of Social Sciences and Humanities, Goan capacity to research its own past, namely its intellectual history and literature, will remain limited and its heritage will be no longer. From what I have been informed there is now an effort to have a more collaborative attitude between departments to overcome limitations, let's hope it is consistent. Best wishes, Sandra Sandra Ataíde Lobo [X][X] [X] [X] Home (gieipc-ip.org)<https://www.gieipc-ip.org/> https://praticasdahistoria.pt/ tmn. ++351 930690459 ________________________________ De: [email protected] <[email protected]> em nome de Helga do Rosario Gomes <[email protected]> Enviado: 4 de dezembro de 2023 23:33 Para: Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]> Assunto: [GRN] Portuguese for non Portuguese researchers It’s quite unfortunate that many researchers are stymied because of their inability to read Portuguese. Unfortunate not only for the frustration it causes the researchers but also the loss of information to the general public especially in this current polarized India. Universities like Columbia where I work demand that a PhD student take courses that extend the breadth and depth of his/her knowledge. But this isn’t the case in most universities worldwide nor is it applicable to independent researchers not affiliated to universities or institutions. But there’s a possible solution to this problem although it would need collaboration and the breaking of silos both of which from my experience are very hard to accomplish at the Goa university. Why don’t researchers with great ideas and enthusiasm as well as access to documents collaborate with the faculty and more importantly with students of the Portuguese Department of Goa Univ? The latter would reap in terms of multidisciplinary collaborations, co-authorship in papers and books and exposure to a big world! This isn’t unusual in the world of science and technology. Data science students are made to work in libraries, linguistics, philosophy departments and medical and earth sciences. Data crunching, like speaking a language, is a skill. Currently very little research is being undertaken at Goa Univ.’s Portuguese department probably because the effort is mostly to produce more Portuguese teachers but a collaboration such as I suggest would produce historians, researchers, thinkers etc. I hope at least one student or faculty from the Portuguese department lurking in the periphery of this group responds. It’s time Goa moved beyond Vem Cantar and Festas do Povo. Best, Helga Sent from my iPhone -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. 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