Ok! Thats good to know as I heard in Pilerne, its in the region of 14- 17 k per person. Our tenants are holding the panchayat posts now!
Marianne On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 10:08 PM Frederick Noronha < [email protected]> wrote: > Pilerne is an exception. The *zonn *is coming from the sale of their > permanent land assets to the industrial estate atop the village hillock. In > comunidades I know of, the zonn is about Rs 100 per year, and that too, > only if you register a year in advance. Not worth the time and trouble. > What is the *zonn* in the other areas? > An interesting study would be to see how comunidades got treated since the > 1960s, when they were stripped of their powers and income, especially > during the era of land reforms across India... That was also incidentally > when large landholders in parts of Goa joined politics and didn't lose most > of their assets. FN > > > On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 at 21:45, Marianne de Nazareth <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hi, >> The system is alive and well in my village in Goa for decades. Infact the >> males who register get a very handsome zonn. >> To clarify ---this is in MY family property and NOT my husbands. By >> Portuguese law everyone gets a share including the spouses. >> I am happy to look after the family homestead, as my connections to it >> are strong. >> I just felt the zonn was meant to help maintain the property which due to >> my gender I am not eligible. >> >> Marianne >> >> On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 6:55 PM John Nazareth <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Well, first of all, the system is now practically defunct so there would >>> be nothing left to reform. >>> >>> I guess at the time it was formulate the intention was that the woman >>> would join the communidade of her husband and as such she had access to her >>> husband’s zonn. >>> >>> Frankly, I have found that Goan women were/are very strong and often >>> save their men from themselves. >>> >>> (For a personal example, when Uganda exploded in 1972 I was thinking of >>> joining the guerrillas in neighbouring Tanzania to fight Amin. I got >>> married to girlfriend Cynthia Fernandes who was outside the country at the >>> time. That was the end of my guerrilla thoughts.) >>> >>> I have always joked with my friends that Goan society was the only >>> “patriarchal” society run by the women. >>> >>> This is only half a joke; it is a reality. Goan women have run their >>> homes. >>> >>> The only thing is that they would do in their husband’s village. >>> >>> >>> >>> But further to that – I have noticed in my research on clans that a >>> significant percentage of cases the family unit has moved to live in the >>> village of the mother (while getting the zonn from the husband’s village. >>> >>> >>> >>> This too confirms my belief that God is a great joker, but the whole >>> world is afraid to laugh. >>> >>> >>> >>> John >>> >>> P.S. In the old days the Goan inheritance rules were that the villager’s >>> family property was shared between the male children. I believe that it >>> changed so that women also had inheritance rights. I am not sure when it >>> changed – someone else would be better positioned to say more. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* [email protected] < >>> [email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Marianne de Nazareth >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 9, 2024 2:29 AM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [GRN] Understanding the clans of Goa... (John Nazareth) >>> >>> >>> >>> What I feel sad about is that we daughters of the family -- who are the >>> ONLY ones looking after the family homes -- are not part of the Zonn. >>> >>> >>> >>> Isnt it time such patriarchy was changed to include us women inheritors? >>> >>> >>> >>> Dr Marianne Furtado de Nazareth >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 9:41 AM John Nazareth <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> The relationship between the gavnkars, zonnkars, munddkars, and other >>> players in the gavnkari have been written about for many years and I was >>> used to reading about them. >>> >>> But when Leroy Veloso first showed me his work in 2007 about using the >>> Matricula – which was primarily for registering people who were to receive >>> some fraction of the zonn – to identify clans I immediately recognized it >>> as a valuable bi-product. I don’t think that was its intention but it is >>> important. >>> >>> And its simplicity is elegant. I was surprised that more historians were >>> not doing it. >>> >>> >>> >>> Of course, there is deeper work that can proceed from it and the master >>> of such work is Bernardo De Sousa in his book “The Last Prabhu”. >>> >>> Someone needs to create a how-to paper to work with the mahajans to >>> identify the root surnames the way Bernardo has done. That is not simple. >>> >>> But I wanted to point out how simple it is to work with the matricula, >>> say from 1940, to unearth the clans of a village. >>> >>> That is important because now that the Gavnkari has been treated so >>> callously by the new institutions of governance those documents are in >>> danger. >>> >>> Everyone needs to work quickly to work with their communidade to create >>> a clan list. >>> >>> >>> >>> Once the matricula ledgers go to the Panjim Archives it is all over. >>> >>> I couldn’t find anyone there who knew what they were and how to get >>> access to them. They are lost in the ether. >>> >>> Finding books of baptisms, marriages and deaths are easy, but you can >>> forget about the matriculas. >>> >>> So work with what you can find in the village communidades today. >>> >>> I sat in the Nachinola communidade for just 2 hours and was able to >>> create a table. Nachinola was my late wife’s village. >>> >>> I couldn’t thank them enough for their kindness. They wouldn’t even >>> accept a donation for their institution. >>> >>> But what I have created has been highly prized by my Nachinola friends. >>> >>> >>> >>> I stand in awe of the traditional system of village governance that >>> stood for over 1000 years and that is now in its twilight years. >>> >>> >>> >>> John Nazareth >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* [email protected] < >>> [email protected]> *On Behalf Of *wrdsilva >>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 7, 2024 12:15 AM >>> *To:* Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]> >>> *Subject:* Re: [GRN] Understanding the clans of Goa... (John Nazareth) >>> >>> >>> >>> My fieldwork in Goa shows the Matricula etc. have merit, but the 'clan' >>> system is difficult to describe the way it is often done. Ganvponn, >>> Ganvkari, Zonn, Zonnkar, Munddkar, Mittgaudde etc.etc. makes the rural >>> system a little more complicated than it is recovered from 'communidades' >>> accounts, or vangodd systems. We need good fieldwork complimented by >>> documents, Portuguese and local (Konkani, Marathi) in order to get a better >>> grasp of the system operating and changing over external interventions in >>> Goa. >>> >>> William Robert Da Silva >>> >>> On Thursday, April 4, 2024 at 1:34:30 PM UTC+5:30 Rowena wrote: >>> >>> Very exciting. I remember wanting to work on this decades ago. Glad >>> someone is 👍🏼 Regards, rowena >>> >>> On Thu, 4 Apr, 2024, 13:25 Frederick Noronha, <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> A paper by *John Nazareth* <[email protected]>, Canada-based >>> statistician and history enthusiast. Check it out below. He writes: >>> "These tables can be gleaned from the Matricula, while is the ledger >>> within the Communidade office on which they log the gaunkars who are >>> registering for their zonn." He says while his work covers only a few >>> villages, others could do so for more. "I got one of my friends to do the >>> necessary in Anjuna in just two days." >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53J0ZVMvJshaYnnvNNeceRcNt55AKEG%2B%3D9CyUo0m2cVBxQ%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53J0ZVMvJshaYnnvNNeceRcNt55AKEG%2B%3D9CyUo0m2cVBxQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/19cf537c-3cb9-4170-b53a-67501262ed34n%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/19cf537c-3cb9-4170-b53a-67501262ed34n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/IA1PR11MB61470DDD7B560D4074E0729EFF002%40IA1PR11MB6147.namprd11.prod.outlook.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/IA1PR11MB61470DDD7B560D4074E0729EFF002%40IA1PR11MB6147.namprd11.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> Dr Marianne de Nazareth >>> >>> Former Asst. Editor, The Deccan Herald, >>> >>> Freelance Environmental Journalist >>> >>> Fellow UNFCCC, UNEP, UNWater >>> >>> Editor Romantic Getaways https://www.bellaonline.com/ >>> >>> http://mariannedenazareth.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAOqQHeK0AkswyPG0F3T5P1yFvuUJg0KOAMyWcOfFTv-uMQ-rKg%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAOqQHeK0AkswyPG0F3T5P1yFvuUJg0KOAMyWcOfFTv-uMQ-rKg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/IA1PR11MB61470436A8A4DC24F64FBDF6FF072%40IA1PR11MB6147.namprd11.prod.outlook.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/IA1PR11MB61470436A8A4DC24F64FBDF6FF072%40IA1PR11MB6147.namprd11.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> Dr Marianne de Nazareth >> Former Asst. Editor, The Deccan Herald, >> Freelance Environmental Journalist >> Fellow UNFCCC, UNEP, UNWater >> Editor Romantic Getaways https://www.bellaonline.com/ >> http://mariannedenazareth.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Goa-Research-Net" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAOqQHeKAMuuo9cAih9_5FOjVxxxom3MtgEgchd%3D_YmA1hksUfg%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAOqQHeKAMuuo9cAih9_5FOjVxxxom3MtgEgchd%3D_YmA1hksUfg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Goa-Research-Net" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53KnAPrPCSB20odRKfhKz4yrWbq0zNfQURjTAxMZeOOAyg%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53KnAPrPCSB20odRKfhKz4yrWbq0zNfQURjTAxMZeOOAyg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- Dr Marianne de Nazareth Former Asst. Editor, The Deccan Herald, Freelance Environmental Journalist Fellow UNFCCC, UNEP, UNWater Editor Romantic Getaways https://www.bellaonline.com/ http://mariannedenazareth.blogspot.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAOqQHeKMmeBTjWw-V38aW5v_n_dGz6by_CCG8HGPAEyVmj4fDg%40mail.gmail.com.
