----- Mensagem de Cliff Pereira <[email protected]> ---------
Data: Wed, 14 Jan 2026 09:54:49 +0000
De: Cliff Pereira <[email protected]>
Assunto: Re: [GRN] Vasco da Gama
Para: [email protected]
Dear Nuno, your perspective is one of many, there are perspectives
of those colonised, those colonising and those who were dragged into
the colonising process. None of these perspectives is entirely valid
and none are entirely invalid.
Alberto mentions that Angola and Mozambique’s borders were not drawn
up by Africans, they were drawn up in Berlin and divided African
peoples. The Bakongo, Batshokwe, Ovambo, Makua and others were split
- hardly a process of unification. This is more a process of divide
and (separate) rule.
I have listened to the perspectives of Portuguese ex-military and
the colonised in Angola, Guinea-Bissau, and Cape Verde and São Tomé
(as well as Timor-Leste, Goa and Macau). What strikes me is that
many of the military people who were often at the front-line portray
empathy with the people they were sent to fight and the thousands of
non-partisan people who were caught up in the wars. But the wives of
the military who lived in compounds and nice suburbs with their
"small army” of servants have nothing but hate for the colonised.
Even today one ex-military wife mentioned “we had such lovely
swimming pools, now look at Bissau?”. The fact that she had a pool
while most of the country had no safe running water reflects the
inequality that all European colonialism produced. Clearly
colonialism was about maintaining a certain status, or hierarchy of
dominance.
Our (includes Goans) passports divided us into “assimildo” or
“não-assimilado”. One offered benefits to employment and housing,
etc. the other did not. Social mobility was strictly controlled. But
that ex-military wife would have had little or no idea of this
mechanism and probably cared little.
Meanwhile the cotton from the colonies supported the textile
industry of Portugal - not the cotton producers.
You are right, that we should look forward, but we are not on the
same page when looking back and that is the stumbling block.
Clifford Pereira.
Get Outlook for Mac[1]
FROM: 'Nuno Cardoso da Silva' via Goa-Research-Net
<[email protected]>
DATE: Tuesday, 13 January 2026 at 1:09 AM
TO: [email protected] <[email protected]>
SUBJECT: Re: [GRN] Vasco da Gama
Having served in the Portuguese army in Angola from 1966 to 1968 I
might be suspect of sympathizing with Portuguese colonialism,
particularly as I never witnessed Angolan people being abused or
mistreated by either the Portuguese administration or by any
Portuguese settlers in Angola. But in fact I - and most Portuguese
people - consider that colonialism is on principle a bad thing, and
we should have never tried to occupy those countries and try to
impose our way of life on them. But having said that I believe that
most peoples colonized by us, in the end benefitted more from our
presence than were harmed by it. For instance, if we take Angola,
what we see there is a strong feeling of national identity, a lack
of tribalism or religious conflict, which is mostly due to their now
having a common language which unites them, and a common cultural
matrix which has helped them overcome any original differences among
tribes, which would have prevented them being a coese people.
Without us there would now be at least some four or five different
countries on what is Angola, or some of the local tribes would have
been exploited and dominated by stronger tribes. Yes, historically
we have comitted some crimes, but which country - no matter how
sovereign - has not often comitted crimes against their own people?
Can we forget that most African slaves were delivered to slavers by
their own people? For money. And historically, weren't we all
colonized? The Celts and Iberian natives in Iberia were colonized by
Fenicians and by Romans, as well as by Muslim Berber tribes from
North Africa. Without them we woukldn't speak the languages we
speak, and our values and judicial system might have been very
different. Did we lose anything with it? Nothing essential, I'm
sure, and we gained a lot from those dominant powers. Time to look
to the future, and not to the past.
Cumprimentos
Nuno Cardoso da Silva
SENT: Sunday, January 11, 2026 at 7:24 PM
FROM: [email protected]
TO: [email protected]
SUBJECT: Re: [GRN] Vasco da Gama
To conclude this debate about foreign invasions from distant lands,
whether by capitalists or communists, just a few lines:
The partition of Africa in Berlin, formalized at the Berlin
Conference (1884-1885), was the process by which European powers,
without African presence, drew arbitrary borders to colonize the
continent, regulating the division and territorial occupation,
establishing principles such as "effective occupation," and
consolidating colonial exploitation with lasting consequences for
African nations.
The communist Stalin colonized parts of Eastern Europe. Portuguese
communists never contested this.
Those defeated and expelled from the colonies will always defend the
theses advocated by the dictator Salazar or Stalin.
To understand better, it is good to read the book by the Angolan
writer Nito Alves Vandunas, "THE PROMINENCE OF MERCENARIES IN MASS
GRAVES, ( PROEMINêNCIA DOS MERCENáRIOS NAS VALAS COMUNS" published
in Luanda by Elivulu house (1977) . It tells the story of foreign
assassins who came from Lisbon to kill Angolan leaders.
Alberto
Cumprimentos
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To view this discussion, visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/20260111192450.Horde.8FXE8GJ5xYyVdokuXHHll_a%40mail.sapo.pt.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To view this discussion, visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/trinity-79df5166-bc35-4c55-8860-00199780d903-1768223867771%403c-app-mailcom-bs01.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to
[email protected]
.
To view this discussion, visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/OS9PR01MB14141A7BB8C0AEC0C186E3BF1BB8FA%40OS9PR01MB14141.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com
.
----- Fim da mensagem de Cliff Pereira <[email protected]> -----
Ligações:
---------
[1] https://aka.ms/GetOutlookForMac
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To view this discussion, visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/20260115121154.Horde.d1puiD308D5TlCe0327idHq%40mail.sapo.pt.
