Dear Larry, I agree with you.
HEFCE/REF should not not make OA mandatory for books/monographs. Even deposit need not be mandatory: Merely urged, wherever possible. (I doubt that there would be many objections to Dark Deposit.) Insisting on book deposit would, again, be needless over-reaching, and gratuitously inviting author resistance. As much book OA as scholars and scientists want and need will come -- but only after Green OA for articles has prevailed. Stevan On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 9:48 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks to Steven Harnad for giving us his enthusiastic view on the > HEFCE prooposd policy for REF and OA. Among my concerns that he > doesn't address, however, is one that will be shared by many/all in > the Humanities (almost always the Cinderella at the OA ball): What > about books? > Though scientists especially use journal articles as THE mode of > publication of original research, the nature of work in the Humanities > (which is often more integrative and discoursive, involving/requiring > extended analysis and argumentation) often requires a book-length > treatment. Indeed, in Humanities field, typically the most > high-impact work appears as/in single-author books. > > Moreover, these include often (perhaps dominantly), not only technical > "monographs" (which are often revised PhD theses), but (especially > among more seasoned scholars) "free-standing" books, and these > published by various university presses but also "trade" publishers. > Many of these aren't based in the UK. > > It will be difficult (and unlikely) to get all these publishers to > allow the immediate deposit of the page-proofs in an OA desository. > So, will this mean that what has been heretofore the most respected > form of research-publication in the Humanities will be disallowed in > the next REF? There is a short paragraph on "monographs" in the HEFCE > consultation paper, but it only reflects the inadequate understanding > of the place of *books* in the Humanities. > > We urgently need HEFCE to bring Humanities scholars more into the > magic circle of policy/practice makers. > > Larry Hurtado > > Quoting Stevan Harnad <[email protected]> on Thu, 14 Mar 2013 > 08:40:12 -0400: > > > On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 5:12 AM, Andy Powell > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > >> Supposing this Proposed HEFCE/REF Green Open Access Mandate leads to a > >> situation where we achieve 100% immediate deposit of the final > >> peer-reviewed draft of journal articles to an institutional repository > but > >> where we also see a ?publisher norm? emerging of a 12-month embargo > period? > >> **** > >> > >> ** ** > >> > >> Firstly, is that an unrealistic expectation of where this policy might > get > >> us?**** > >> > >> ** ** > >> > >> If so, would we consider this situation to have significantly advanced > the > >> OA cause?**** > >> > >> ** ** > >> > >> I agree that the separation of ?immediate deposit? from ?embargo period? > >> is important but I also worry that doing so effectively becomes a way > for > >> publishers to stifle progress towards true OA but setting lengthy > embargo > >> periods? Further, there seems to be nothing in this policy that > mitigates > >> against this happening?**** > >> > >> ** ** > >> > >> Or am I misunderstanding the situation? > >> > > > > Please read the comments, not just the Executive Summary, as they > > explicitly answer your question. > > > > Meanwhile, here is the answer to your question, put in a different way, > in > > response to: *RCUK fails to end ?green? embargo > > confusion*< > http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/news/rcuk-fails-to-end-green-embargo-confusion/2002538.article > > > > " *THE* 14 March 2013: > > > > * > > KEYSTROKE MANDATES > > * > > > > What a mess! With publishers eagerly pawing at the Golden Door, and RCUK > > hopelessly waffling at Green embargo limits and their enforcement. > > > > But relief is on the way! HEFCE has meanwhile quietly and gently > proposed a > > solution that will moot all this relentless cupidity and stupidity. > > > > HEFCE has proposed to mandate that in order to be eligible for the > Research > > Excellence Framework > > (REF)< > http://www.hefce.ac.uk/media/hefce/content/news/news/2013/open_access_letter.pdf > >, > > the final, peer-reviewed drafts of all papers published as of 2014 will > > have to be deposited in the author's institutional > > repository<http://roar.eprints.org/> immediately > > upon publication: no delays, no embargoes, no exceptions -- irrespective > of > > whether the paper is published in a Gold OA journal or a subscription > > journal, and irrespective of the allowable length of the embargo on > making > > the deposit OA: The deposit itself must be immediate. > > > > This has the immense benefit that while the haggling continues about how > > much will be paid for Gold OA and how long Green OA may be embargoed, all > > papers will be faithfully deposited -- and deposited in institutional > > repositories, which means that all UK universities will thereby be > > recruited, as of 2014, to monitor and ensure that the deposits are made, > > and made immediately. (Institutions have an excellent track record for > > making sure that everything necessary for REF is done, and done reliably, > > because a lot of money and prestige is at stake for them.) > > > > And one of the ingenious features of the proposed HEFCE/REF Green OA > > mandate is the stipulation that deposit may not be delayed: Authors > cannot > > wait till just before the next REF, six years later, to do it. If the > > deposit was not immediate, the paper is ineligible for REF. > > > > And, most brilliant stroke of all, this ensures that it is not just the 4 > > papers that are ultimately chosen for submission to REF that are > deposited > > immediately -- for that choice is always a retrospective one, made after > > looking over the past 6 years' work, to pick the four best papers. Rarely > > will this be known in advance. So the safest policy will be to deposit > all > > papers immediately, just in case. > > > > This is precisely the compliance assurance mechanism the RCUK mandate so > > desperately needs in order to succeed, but the RCUK policy-makers have > not > > yet had the wit to conceive and adopt. Well, HEFCE/REF have done it for > > them, bless them. > > > > But immediate-deposit is not immediate-OA you say? Indeed it is not. It > > does, however, overcome OA's most formidable hurdle, which is getting all > > those papers into the institutional repositories, and right away: > > keystrokes. It is just those keystrokes that have stood between the > > research world and OA for over over two decades now. > > > > Once the institutional repositories are reliably being filled to 100%, > does > > anyone with the slightest imagination doubt what will follow, as nature > > (and human nature) takes its course? > > > > First, the repositories will facilitate sending reprints to those who > > request a single copy for research purposes, with one click each. Sending > > reprints is not OA; researchers have been doing it for a half century. > But > > they used to have to do it by reading *Current Contents* or scanning > > journals' contents lists, mailing reprint requests, and then waiting and > > hoping that authors would take the time and trouble and expense to mail > > them a reprint, as requested (and many did). But now the whole > transaction > > is just one click each, and almost immediate, if the papers have been > > deposited and both parties are at the wheel. > > > > But that's still just Almost-OA. Once immediate-deposit is mandated, > > however, about 60% of those deposits can be made immediately OA, because > > about 60% of journals already endorse immediate, unembargoed Green OA. > > (RCUK has already succeeded is dragging down that figure to somewhat > closer > > to 50/50 with its perverse preference for Gold, inspiring hybrid Gold > > publishers to offer Gold and increase Green embargo lengths to try to > force > > UK authors to pick paid Gold over cost-free Green). > > > > Now that's about half immediate-OA plus half Almost-OA to tide over > > researcher needs during the embargo. But does anyone have any doubt about > > what will happen next? As OA and Almost-OA grow, and the research > community > > tastes more and more of what it's like to have half immediate-OA and half > > Almost-OA, all the disciplines that have not yet had the sense to do it > > will begin to do what almost 100% of physicists have already been doing > for > > 20 years now without so much as a moment's hesitation or a "by your > leave": > > > > That last remaining keystroke, once a paper is written, revised, accepted > > and deposited -- the keystroke that makes the paper OA -- will be done > > sooner and sooner, more and more, until the embargoes with which > publishers > > are trying to hold research hostage will all die their natural and > > well-deserved deaths as the research community learns to do the obvious, > > optimal and inevitable, in the online era. > > > > (Nor will peer-reviewed journal publishing die, as publishers keep > warning > > menacingly: It will simply convert to Gold OA -- but only after the > > pressure from Green OA has forced journals to phase out all obsolete > > products and services and their costs: that means phasing out the print > > version and the online version, and offloading all access-providing and > > archiving onto the global network of Green OA institutional repositories. > > Then, instead of double-paying for Gold OA, as Finch folly and RCUK > > recklessness would have us do -- subscriptions plus Gold OA fees -- > > post-Green Gold OA will just be a fee for the peer review service, at a > > fair, affordable and sustainable price, paid for out of a fraction of > > institutions' annual savings from subscription cancellations instead of > out > > of scarce research funds, over and above subscriptions, as now. Pre-Green > > Gold is Fool's Gold: Post-Green Gold is Fair Gold.) > > > > > > L. W. Hurtado, PhD, FRSE > Emeritus Professor of New Testament Language, Literature & Theology > Honorary Professorial Fellow > New College (School of Divinity) > University of Edinburgh > Mound Place > Edinburgh, UK. EH1 2LX > Office Phone: (0)131 650 8920. FAX: (0)131 650 7952 > http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/divinity/staff-profiles/hurtado > www.larryhurtado.wordpress.com > > -- > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > > > _______________________________________________ > GOAL mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal >
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