G1GC only went into production with Java 7 in 2011. I don’t think you understand how Zing works. Furthermore, malloc based systems actually have longer pauses especially as things get fragmented.
I believe your knowledge of modern GC is way out of date. > On Feb 12, 2020, at 8:22 PM, alex.besogo...@gmail.com wrote: > > > Nope. G1GC actually dates back to 2004 (see doi 10.1.1.63.6386) with > Metronome even earlier (2002, I think). > > Zing has actually even less throughput than the good old CMS and way more > memory overhead on massively-parallel systems. However, it does guarantee > realtime performance that is necessary for high-speed financial apps. > Shenandoah is similar. > > And it's not getting better. On systems with hundreds of CPUs even small > stop-the-world pauses are unacceptable, but making a pauseless compacting GC > for a shared-memory system seems to be a fool's errand. By leaving out > compaction, the benefits of GC become even less appealing. > >> On Wednesday, February 12, 2020 at 2:57:04 PM UTC-8, Robert Engels wrote: >> GCs have radically improved since then - at least in practical >> implementation. >> >> Again, see G1, Metronome, Zing or Shenandoah - none of these were available >> in 2005. >> >> (Or even Go's GC performance progression - but as I mentioned, in this >> particular test the lack of a generational collector is holding it back). >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: alex.b...@gmail.com >> Sent: Feb 12, 2020 3:06 PM >> To: golang-nuts >> Subject: Re: [go-nuts] Go without garbage collector >> >> I'm very familiar with this paper. It's not the first one that uses oracular >> memory management for comparison, the earlier one used ML as its langauge. >> >> The problem with these papers is that they're using very artificial >> benchmarks, not really representative of real workloads. They additionally >> use languages that are very heap-oriented, with very few value objects. >> >> GCs also have not radically improved since then, if anything they are worse >> now in massively-parallel environment than on single-core CPUs of yore. >> >>> On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 8:54:29 PM UTC-8, robert engels wrote: >>> Here is a paper from 2005 >>> https://people.cs.umass.edu/~emery/pubs/gcvsmalloc.pdf that proves >>> otherwise. >>> >>> GC techniques have radically improved since then, some with hardware >>> support, so much so that it is no longer a contest. >>> >>> To reiterate though, if you don’t have dynamic memory management - which is >>> essentially allocate and forget - that will “probably" be faster (many GC >>> systems have an extra level of indirection). >>> >>> You can write robust systems without dynamic memory, but it is very very >>> difficult - beyond the skills of most developers. >>> >>> So most developers resort to dynamic memory at some point - and once you do >>> that - GC will crush your manual memory management techniques. >>> >>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 10:31 PM, alex.b...@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>> Actually, it was not proven. And in practice manual memory management >>>> seems to be outperforming GC in majority of cases. >>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 5:59:26 PM UTC-8, robert engels wrote: >>>>> It’s been PROVEN that GC outperforms all manual memory management except >>>>> in EXTREMELY isolated cases (very non-traditional allocation or >>>>> deallocation patterns). >>>>> >>>>> It’s all about constraints and tolerances. >>>>> >>>>> You design a “system” that takes both into account - if not, you’re not >>>>> engineering, you're guessing. >>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 AM, deat...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> What about #vlang ? https://vlang.io/ >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, 17 June 2012 22:40:30 UTC+2, nsf wrote: >>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 11:48:53 -0700 (PDT) >>>>>>> ⚛ <0xe2.0...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > > You can't have Go syntax without a garbage collector. >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I wouldn't be so sure about it. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Let me rephrase myself. When someone says "I want Go without garbage >>>>>>> collection" it means a person wants a feel he has with Go, but at the >>>>>>> same time without garbage collection. At least that's my case. I wanted >>>>>>> exactly that. And you can't have that. You can build a language similar >>>>>>> to Go without GC, but you won't get a feel of Go. At least, I couldn't >>>>>>> do it. And maybe it's kind of obvious, but when there is a need to >>>>>>> manage memory, that factor alone creates a different programmer >>>>>>> mindset. >>>>>>> And in my opinion what Go does so well for a programmer is establishing >>>>>>> its own mindset that gives a very nice and smooth development process. >>>>>>> What we call "a feel of Go". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's actually very same mistake that leads to talks like "where is my >>>>>>> feature X? I want feature X in your language". And the problem here is >>>>>>> that a language is not just a collection of features, it's a >>>>>>> composition of features. You can't just stick something in and make it >>>>>>> better (see C++) and you can't throw something out. Every feature >>>>>>> addition/removal affects the language as a whole, mutating it to a >>>>>>> different state. And in my opinion GC is a critical feature that allows >>>>>>> you to have memory safety and (well, let's put it that way) memory >>>>>>> safety is one of the major features in Go. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So.. think about it. "I want Go with templates" and "I want Go without >>>>>>> garbage collection" are very similar things. Both hide the desire of >>>>>>> improving/changing something without realization that this will affect >>>>>>> other areas dramatically. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And to make a summary: I tried that, I did that mistake thinking you >>>>>>> can build something out of Go just by taking parts you like and mixing >>>>>>> them in some weird way. I was stupid (to make it clear, I'm not >>>>>>> implying that anyone is). Hopefully what I said makes some sense. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Offtopic: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Btw. Thanks for your work on GC precision, I really hope those patches >>>>>>> will get into Go. One of the areas where I want to apply Go is desktop >>>>>>> applications. And for these you need a precise GC, because some desktop >>>>>>> apps have uptime measured in days or weeks (especially on geek's linux >>>>>>> machines) and you clearly don't want to get mozilla's firefox fame for >>>>>>> eating all the memory. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "golang-nuts" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to golan...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/165ebe92-362d-44f0-9ddb-2e152276b6fc%40googlegroups.com. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "golang-nuts" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to golan...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/c03420c5-d1b0-4c73-8a61-f4fa131018f9%40googlegroups.com. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "golang-nuts" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to golan...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/465e2109-e0a5-4fdc-9dbf-5670eb73bfef%40googlegroups.com. >> >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "golang-nuts" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/36d34a8b-435d-4dab-b3b7-3d3471ff7428%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "golang-nuts" group. 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