I contact you now, here, online :-) For my PyOoHtml next release, I will put this http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0020/
because it right and it has been placed in the public domain (like my PyOoHtml). And I will put a link to this post because it explains the aim of my new project. On Aug 31, 2:08 am, "Noah Gift" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Michael Schreifels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Aug 30, 4:25 pm, Davide Rognoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Not Google but: > > >> "Guido just pronounced: Django is the [Python] web > >> frameworkhttp://www.cmlenz.net/archives/2006/08/the-python-web-framework > > > So what? Guido likes > > Django...http://www.djangoproject.com/weblog/2006/aug/07/guidointerview/ > > > FYI if you listened to Guido's talk on building Django apps on AE at > > Google I/O this year, he said that "Django is just one of many > > frameworks you can use." The talk is available online. > > I was at Google I/O and attended that talk. Yes, I think that is a > great goal for the Google App Engine team, but it is currently not a > reality. I hope this can be addressed soon, as personally I feel it > is one of the biggest issues facing the project. There are many > incredible tools from other frameworks and applications like say, > MoinMoin, that could benefit from a more complete version of Python. > At the very least the documentation should be updated to state that it > is the goal to support other frameworks than webapp. > > > > > On Aug 30, 4:40 pm, Davide Rognoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> fromhttp://www.cmlenz.net/archives/2007/06/logic-in-templates > > >> """How could a custom, sparingly documented, somewhat inconsistent, > >> and mostly unproven (compared to Python) mini expression language be > >> any better for template authors?""" > > > I wasn't using Django over a year ago when that was published (just > > think: that was when oldforms was still in, eeek), but I will say one > > thing: out of all of the frameworks and libraries I have used, Django > > is THE best documented web framework I have ever come across. Also, > > that quote is comparing how proven an entire language is to a mere > > collection of template tags and constructs... > > Let me preface that I use Django for many projects and I like it for > certain things. Please don't take offense anyone at my view about > flaws in Django: > > This is an excellent argument actually. Why reinvent Python and keep > making special cases like threaded comments each time a new flaw in > the template design is found? This actually violates the "Zen of > Python",http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0020/. Of course we can > take this discussion offline. > > This is a very valid point against Django templates. Reinventing constructs > > > > >> """In my humble opinion, this kind of "dumbed-down" templating results > >> in only one thing: more lines of code in the application modules, > >> lines of code that are really only about presentation, and should be > >> in the templates. And frustration every single time you need to add > >> those lines.""" > > > So Django templates aren't for everyone. Django was designed to be > > loosely coupled so you can stick in your own preferences where > > desired. > > This phrase, "Django was designed to be loosely coupled", is another > complaint I have against Django, and something I frequently hear. > What does this mean? In my opinion Pylons is loosely > coupled:http://pylonsbook.com/. Django does not do things that I feel are > loosely coupled, like documenting in a published book or official > documentation how to use third party components such as SQLAlchemy, > Jinja, or setuptools. Almost every alternate popular framework > supports directly, with copious official documentation, > setuptools:http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/setuptools, and > SQLAlchemy:http://www.sqlalchemy.org/. Here are a list of alternate > frameworks > in Python that people might reference: > > Zope 3: http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope3 > Grok: http://grok.zope.org/ > Pylons: http://pylonshq.com/ > Turbogears2: http://turbogears.org/2.0/ > Werkzeug: http://werkzeug.pocoo.org/documentation/tutorial/ > > All of these support in their documentation setuptools and SQLAlchemy > and are in my opinion loosely coupled. Loosely coupled means > different things to different people and it is marketing terminology > that Django should probably drop, as it is false. > > > > > > > On Aug 30, 4:05 pm, "Noah Gift" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I think for new comers to Python, it IS presented as the only choice > >> as many people would have difficulty "monkey-patching" another > >> template engine, as there have been issues in getting, to my knowledge > >> at least, Mako and Genshi to fully work on appengine. It seems like > >> this new cookbook area would be a good spot to for developers of those > >> other templates to put their integration recipes: > > > If I wanted to work with PHP and didn't like the fact that it allowed > > my designers to access PHP, I could certainly choose to use a template > > language. But of course, it is going to involve overcoming a barrier > > to implementation. Django templates works great for most people. For > > those who it doesn't work for, they should be prepared to have to do > > some extra work. Besides, for beginner's needs, what exactly is it > > that Django templates doesn't work for? > > Again please reference this URL for many examples: > > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/search?q=django+templates > > My own example is nested hierarchical relationships from the model. > > > > > Django templates is incredibly newbie-friendly. As mentioned, the > > documentation is (IMO) second-to-none, and there are other great > > resources, like the free talks available online covering Django, and > > djangobook, which is mostly up-to-date. > > > But still, I don't think this conversation is the appropriate place > > for this discussion. > > I just wanted to make sure, that your statement "You don't understand > how Django templates work" was properly addressed and Google > searchable, as it was not a valid argument against why Django > templates don't support Python logic. I would protest against this > common meme I hear about Django templates that if you don't like them > then you don't understand how they work. In many cases they have > severe design flaws, which are impossible to address without adding > Python back into the template, or adding one off hacks and weird > special cases which the official django template documentation if full > of. Again, this is my opinion. Feel free to contact me offline for a > more detailed answer anyone. > > > > -- > Noah Gifthttp://noahgift.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
