Hi Adam, Can you elaborate on your thoughts of RightScale? Which "worst problems" do you mean? Have you had a bad experience with them?
Shane On Dec 4, 4:00 am, Adam Sah <[email protected]> wrote: > imho: I'd be cautious about AppScale-- you may inherit all the worst > problems > of AWS and GAE, with few benefits. One win however-- you'll have > one > [low level] system to keep running, diagnose, etc. > > also imho: I wouldn't wait for GAE/Business or any pre-announced > offering > from any company: pre-announcements have a tendency to slip. > > hope this helps, > adam > > On Dec 2, 8:10 pm, Shane <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Adam, > > > Thanks for the response. One way I was considering approaching the > > issue of keeping the doors open to migrate back to GAE at a later > > date, is to use something like AppScale on AWS. This way I can be > > more or less on the same path as GAE. > > > I am really keen to see the GAE for Business plans for non-intranet > > solutions. This could be an awesome opportunity, however until this > > happens, I just can't rely on a beta product. It's a real shame > > because it's a lovely system. > > > Shane > > > On Dec 3, 8:09 am, Adam Sah <[email protected]> wrote:> I'm a *very* > > longtime GAE user and former googler and I love it... but > > > for now, > > > I usually recommend it as an *ingredient* and not as the backbone > > > of the > > > whole system. > > > > Specifically, GAE can't support certain libraries (e.g. anything with > > > C/C++), > > > so you inevitably need another service like AWS, linode, etc. I > > > use Linode > > > to run SOLR for us and another PC instance for our offline pipeline > > > (maybe > > > move to Tasks???) > > > > GAE makes a nice frontend-- just be prepared for whining about short > > > outages, > > > limitations, etc. -- OTOH, I love not carrying a pager, instant > > > scaling, etc. > > > I once did 600 QPS on appengine, effortlessly. I've run $MM > > > businesses > > > on appengine, painlessly. > > > > One thing: if you start on GAE you can easily migrate away, but if you > > > start > > > elsewhere it's very hard to migrate to GAE. This argues for giving > > > it a shot, > > > then re-evaluating (say) monthly. > > > > For my latest startup, we're based entirely on GAE and it's love-hate, > > > but we've > > > stuck with it and the issues haven't been big enough to matter-- > > > and v1.4 > > > (any minute now!!!) should solve 50+% of the hassles. > > > > adam > > > > On Dec 2, 10:03 am, Grzegorz Machniewski > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Do you know how Zynga's backend is set up on AWS? I would imagine > > > > > it's > > > > > pretty complex so, you have to have the system architects and > > > > administrators > > > > to manage that. > > > > > Zynga is using RightScale as a platform management software > > > > (http://www.rightscale.com/)... it automates management and scaling of > > > > the > > > > application. It's quite impressive solution, > > > > > Regards > > > > G. > > > > > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Eli Jones <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Maybe one of the Google developers will see this and can provide you > > > > > with > > > > > an informed answer.. but, if it slips through the cracks, you should > > > > > definitely ask during the IRC office hours (or just check #appengine > > > > > on > > > > > irc.freenode.net, since someone from Google may be there at any time.) > > > > > > If your app becomes popular on a Farmville scale, you'd have to be > > > > > prepared > > > > > to automatically start-up new instances and balance load across them. > > > > > Which > > > > > means you'd need to spend time and energy designing this sort of > > > > > system up > > > > > front. > > > > > > Though, if you just plan on cranking up an Extra Large EC2 Instance > > > > > and > > > > > running off of that (and maybe using SimpleDB on the back end).. and > > > > > dealing > > > > > with front end scaling issues later. You would probably be fine.. > > > > > most apps > > > > > do not become popular on the Farmville scale. SimpleDB will enforce a > > > > > little database discipline, and, if you do "blow up", you could > > > > > probably > > > > > figure out how to load balance over multiple static instances until > > > > > you > > > > > cooked up some sort of automated scaling method. (Again, this > > > > > depends on > > > > > you using SimpleDB on the back-end.) > > > > > > With Appengine, you avoid any sort of systems architecting (just code > > > > > as > > > > > fast as possible).. but you have to spend time coding ways to deal > > > > > with the > > > > > 99th percentile outlier Datastore issues. > > > > > > Maybe there are some people here who have user facing apps who can > > > > > speak > > > > > about this from experience (I happily do backend processing where > > > > > retrying a > > > > > failed datastore operation or a failed cold start is no problem.. and > > > > > there > > > > > is no user on the other side to become frustrated.) > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 1:10 AM, Shane <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> I know this has been asked one way or another before, but most of the > > > > >> main issues to do with GAE stability seem to have been asked around > > > > >> the end of 2008, early 2009. > > > > > >> Basically, I have been arguing back and forth with my business > > > > >> partner > > > > >> about whether to use GAE or AWS for the back-end of our social game > > > > >> engine. I love GAE (Java) for so many reasons, and although it used > > > > >> to be unstable, it's pretty good now. The main argument in favour of > > > > >> AWS is the fact that AWS has proven itself with multiple games > > > > >> running > > > > >> tens of millions of active users per day. The obvious pin-up child > > > > >> for AWS is Zynga, with its Farmville peaking at 80+million DAU. And > > > > >> that's just one of the hugely successful games running on the AWS > > > > >> infrastructure. Remarkable achievement. > > > > > >> So, one way or another it's KNOWN to work. GAE on the other hand > > > > >> doesn't have any examples that I could find doing these sorts of > > > > >> numbers. Not even close. So can I trust it? Is there a single > > > > >> example of a large social game with millions of Daily Active Users, > > > > >> using GAE? > > > > > >> I look forward to your thoughts, but please also note, this is not > > > > >> intended to start any sort of flame war. I love both systems, but > > > > >> both have their positives and negatives, but I'm about to make an > > > > >> architectural decision that likely won't be undone moving forward. > > > > > >> Regards, > > > > >> Shane > > > > > >> -- > > > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > >> Groups > > > > >> "Google App Engine" group. > > > > >> To post to this group, send email to > > > > >> [email protected]. > > > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > >> [email protected]<google-appengine%2Bunsubscrib > > > > >> [email protected]> > > > > >> . > > > > >> For more options, visit this group at > > > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > > Groups > > > > > "Google App Engine" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > > > [email protected]. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > [email protected]<google-appengine%2Bunsubscrib > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > . > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > > > -- > > > > Grzegorz Machniewski -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. 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