Pablo, I appreciate that you are trying to improve the platform (however I'm amazed that it looks like you dropped the old one and started to develop from scratch repeating the same mistakes). Anyway, my personal discontent was your argument that "Practicing in a different way than how you compete is bound to cause you trouble" which I find to be poor. I can enhance the eatmore's argument: why not to stop providing a sample dataset? We are just trying to find a compromise: if you provide a sample dataset why not to provide a SUBSET of real dataset for practice? One more (IMHO) poor argument: " Also, some people spend a lot more time using our site to practice than to compete..." Some people use English every day as a primary language, some don't. GCJ describes the problem in such a way that for non-native speakers it is much more difficult to understand all the nuances. Everybody can become a good programmer, but nobody can become a native speaker if he is not already. But I don't ask you to translate the problems into all natural languages, I'm just saying that you should not provide the arguments like that.
Thank you, Dmitry On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 6:28 PM, 'Pablo Heiber' via Google Code Jam < [email protected]> wrote: > Hi Dimtry and eatmore and everyone else, > > I definitely believe you there are bugs. We know of some, but it's > possible that you know of some others, so if you don't mind pointing them > out, we'll try to get rid of as much of them as we can. If you don't want > to share, that's ok too, but it may slow down the fixing. > > Regarding hearing our users, I was under the impression that we did. > Fortunately we have a lot of users. Unfortunately, that means that not all > of you want the same thing. Some of those differences are just how to > prioritize different features or bug fixes, and some of those differences > are impossible to completely reconcile, or only possible to reconcile by > losing something else of value. Eventually we make choices based on the > feedback we get and those choices may not be great for some users. We try > to make it better for most, but even if we succeed, we'll make it worse for > some that liked the other way. As an example, we already have both love and > hate messages about the new UI in this very group. > > Finally, regarding eatmore's comment on the analysis: it's true that > analysis, or code from other contestants that we also make available, can > be misused (in our opinion). However, the positive value of those outweighs > (again, in our opinion) the potential pitfalls. We do things like not share > official code in most cases to mitigate the issue. Of course, everything is > a question of trade-offs, and you may disagree with our evaluation of the > pros and cons, and you are welcome to post your own reasoning about them. > There's no guarantee that we'll end up agreeing with your assessment, > though, but we'll definitely read what you have to say and consider it. > > Best, > Pablo > > On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 2:04 PM Dmitry Kuzminov <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> There are many bugs in your platform (there are, believe me). Your thesis >> "you are going to be unprepared" may be propagated to "you are going to >> be unprepared to the fact that we have fixed the bugs": so why fix them? >> And you are right: I dislike your UI. This is very similar to Microsoft >> who has acquired Skype and did it best to make it worse (I believe that >> most of people would agree with me about Skype). That is very sad that >> Google starts taking good things that work well and transform them to the >> things that don't. That's ok with me that you have introduce new rules: the >> problem is that you don't hear your users. >> >> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 4:38 PM, 'Pablo Heiber' via Google Code Jam < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Practicing in a different way than how you compete is bound to cause you >>> trouble. If you resort to seeing the input data when you don't know why >>> something is not working well, you are going to be unprepared when that >>> happens in a contest. >>> >>> Also, some people spend a lot more time using our site to practice than >>> to compete (some don't like the time pressure of the competitive pressure >>> of an actual contest, for instance). And that's totally fine. And we want >>> those users to be as well prepared to be programmers as we can, in the same >>> way we want the test to reflect programming as accurately as possible, as >>> I've already mentioned. >>> >>> It's totally fine if you disagree with these arguments, in the same way >>> you have every right to dislike the UI or any other of our choices. I hope >>> that you can still find good value in Code Jam despite those differences. >>> >>> Best, >>> Pablo >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 1:26 PM Дмитрий Кузьминов < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Pablo, >>>> >>>> There are many other things aside of an incorrect algorithm that can be >>>> the reason of the "Wrong answer" verdict: precision, output format, case >>>> sensitivity, trailing spaces... Due to the fact that the system is >>>> completely new for us, we need to debug our code templates to get sure that >>>> the rest is OK while the only thing we need to concern is the algorithm >>>> itself. For now I experience lack of information at least for the Edgy >>>> Baking problem. >>>> >>>> On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 1:11:57 PM UTC-4, Pablo Heiber wrote: >>>> > Hi Alex, >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > We've been asked this several times, and our policy is not to reveal >>>> test data. If you are interested about the reasoning, you can refer to old >>>> threads in this group that discuss the topic, like this one. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Best, >>>> > Pablo >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 9:47 AM Alex Wice <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > Please make input/output test case data available after contests end, >>>> when appropriate (non-interactive problems.) It is a simple text file. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > I can't debug some problems and it would be really nice to know what >>>> cases I failed. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > >>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Google Code Jam" group. >>>> > >>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>> > >>>> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> > >>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ >>>> msgid/google-code/740c351f-d013-4307-b092-d37a68d527d4% >>>> 40googlegroups.com. >>>> > >>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Google Code Jam" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ >>>> msgid/google-code/4e017025-b972-47df-8198-08669daa3f87% >>>> 40googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Google Code Jam" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ >>> msgid/google-code/CANa5jcAAcw7VxGFS9e5gq%2B-usyiyqCgCtq%2B_R_TNYCr%2Bt_ >>> 3tsA%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-code/CANa5jcAAcw7VxGFS9e5gq%2B-usyiyqCgCtq%2B_R_TNYCr%2Bt_3tsA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Google Code Jam" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ >> msgid/google-code/CADpTfwMtLQAB%3D6Jk2GjL4g-Y4hzi5Zwv23n2XNM77W6BLtAPkg% >> 40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-code/CADpTfwMtLQAB%3D6Jk2GjL4g-Y4hzi5Zwv23n2XNM77W6BLtAPkg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google Code Jam" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ > msgid/google-code/CANa5jcDNWEhujxDMT7GT8%3D5rJhDL0Wu-KZByuPTvJj-tBidw% > 2BQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-code/CANa5jcDNWEhujxDMT7GT8%3D5rJhDL0Wu-KZByuPTvJj-tBidw%2BQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Code Jam" group. 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