Lets take the beginning of the Edgy Baking problem: "The baker Mr. Maillard has rolled out some cookie dough and cut it up to create *N* cookies, each of which is a rectangle. He was just about to put them in the oven when he remembered that the crispy, caramelized edges of cookies taste particularly delicious." This is equivalent to "There are N rectangular cookies." I don't ask you to simplify the text, but I'm focusing your attention on the fact that the time needed to read both phrases is almost the same for an English speaker and significantly differs for the rest of the users. In another thread the user Anil was complaining on the fact that returning 1 from the main() caused the runtime error. This is obvious for me, but it was not for him. All GCJ users are different because of the experience/language/age/sex/timezone/programming language, etc., but that is even a benefit (otherwise the competition would have become a lottery). The only way to make it fair is to provide more practice to everybody who wishes it. You have said that you plan not to answer in this topic, so this is just for you to read: hiding the datasets in practice mode is a questionable solution that (IMHO) just increases the difference in experience.
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 7:30 PM, 'Pablo Heiber' via Google Code Jam < [email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > > >> It is strange that you deny the obvious fact that native speakers have >> odds. >> >> > I didn't deny that. The way you phrased your message it made it sound like > we write in a way that makes it particularly hard to non-native speakers. > I'm glad to learn that you just meant non-native English speakers are at a > disadvantage, that's definitely true. > > I'd suggest try not to assume the absolute worst about what I say and > maybe the exchange will be more efficient. I'm not such a bad guy if you > get to know me. > > Best, > Pablo > > >> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 7:10 PM, 'Pablo Heiber' via Google Code Jam < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I think the discussion on the rationale to decide what to show or not >>> show is going nowhere, so I'm personally stepping out of it. You are of >>> course welcome to continue if you want, but I thought it was fair to me to >>> give warning that I won't be answering anymore since I've been >>> participating. >>> >>> I would like to hear more about the language in the problems not being >>> accessible, though. We do try to make the statements readable for >>> non-native speakers, and we have non-native speakers review all of them. If >>> you (or anyone else) thinks the English is too complicated, please let us >>> know, we definitely want to work on that. If you have specific examples of >>> problems where the English was hard to parse, even better (they don't need >>> to be from this year, since the statement review process hasn't changed >>> with the system change). >>> >>> Best, >>> Pablo >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 3:56 PM Dmitry Kuzminov < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Pablo, >>>> >>>> I appreciate that you are trying to improve the platform (however I'm >>>> amazed that it looks like you dropped the old one and started to develop >>>> from scratch repeating the same mistakes). Anyway, my personal discontent >>>> was your argument that "Practicing in a different way than how you >>>> compete is bound to cause you trouble" which I find to be poor. I can >>>> enhance the eatmore's argument: why not to stop providing a sample dataset? >>>> We are just trying to find a compromise: if you provide a sample dataset >>>> why not to provide a SUBSET of real dataset for practice? >>>> One more (IMHO) poor argument: " Also, some people spend a lot more >>>> time using our site to practice than to compete..." Some people use >>>> English every day as a primary language, some don't. GCJ describes the >>>> problem in such a way that for non-native speakers it is much more >>>> difficult to understand all the nuances. Everybody can become a good >>>> programmer, but nobody can become a native speaker if he is not already. >>>> But I don't ask you to translate the problems into all natural languages, >>>> I'm just saying that you should not provide the arguments like that. >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> Dmitry >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 6:28 PM, 'Pablo Heiber' via Google Code Jam < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Dimtry and eatmore and everyone else, >>>>> >>>>> I definitely believe you there are bugs. We know of some, but it's >>>>> possible that you know of some others, so if you don't mind pointing them >>>>> out, we'll try to get rid of as much of them as we can. If you don't want >>>>> to share, that's ok too, but it may slow down the fixing. >>>>> >>>>> Regarding hearing our users, I was under the impression that we did. >>>>> Fortunately we have a lot of users. Unfortunately, that means that not all >>>>> of you want the same thing. Some of those differences are just how to >>>>> prioritize different features or bug fixes, and some of those differences >>>>> are impossible to completely reconcile, or only possible to reconcile by >>>>> losing something else of value. Eventually we make choices based on the >>>>> feedback we get and those choices may not be great for some users. We try >>>>> to make it better for most, but even if we succeed, we'll make it worse >>>>> for >>>>> some that liked the other way. As an example, we already have both love >>>>> and >>>>> hate messages about the new UI in this very group. >>>>> >>>>> Finally, regarding eatmore's comment on the analysis: it's true that >>>>> analysis, or code from other contestants that we also make available, can >>>>> be misused (in our opinion). However, the positive value of those >>>>> outweighs >>>>> (again, in our opinion) the potential pitfalls. We do things like not >>>>> share >>>>> official code in most cases to mitigate the issue. Of course, everything >>>>> is >>>>> a question of trade-offs, and you may disagree with our evaluation of the >>>>> pros and cons, and you are welcome to post your own reasoning about them. >>>>> There's no guarantee that we'll end up agreeing with your assessment, >>>>> though, but we'll definitely read what you have to say and consider it. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Pablo >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 2:04 PM Dmitry Kuzminov < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> There are many bugs in your platform (there are, believe me). Your >>>>>> thesis "you are going to be unprepared" may be propagated to "you >>>>>> are going to be unprepared to the fact that we have fixed the bugs": >>>>>> so why fix them? >>>>>> And you are right: I dislike your UI. This is very similar to >>>>>> Microsoft who has acquired Skype and did it best to make it worse (I >>>>>> believe that most of people would agree with me about Skype). That is >>>>>> very >>>>>> sad that Google starts taking good things that work well and transform >>>>>> them >>>>>> to the things that don't. That's ok with me that you have introduce new >>>>>> rules: the problem is that you don't hear your users. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 4:38 PM, 'Pablo Heiber' via Google Code Jam < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Practicing in a different way than how you compete is bound to cause >>>>>>> you trouble. If you resort to seeing the input data when you don't know >>>>>>> why >>>>>>> something is not working well, you are going to be unprepared when that >>>>>>> happens in a contest. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, some people spend a lot more time using our site to practice >>>>>>> than to compete (some don't like the time pressure of the competitive >>>>>>> pressure of an actual contest, for instance). And that's totally fine. >>>>>>> And >>>>>>> we want those users to be as well prepared to be programmers as we can, >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the same way we want the test to reflect programming as accurately as >>>>>>> possible, as I've already mentioned. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's totally fine if you disagree with these arguments, in the same >>>>>>> way you have every right to dislike the UI or any other of our choices. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> hope that you can still find good value in Code Jam despite those >>>>>>> differences. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Pablo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 1:26 PM Дмитрий Кузьминов < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Pablo, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are many other things aside of an incorrect algorithm that >>>>>>>> can be the reason of the "Wrong answer" verdict: precision, output >>>>>>>> format, >>>>>>>> case sensitivity, trailing spaces... Due to the fact that the system is >>>>>>>> completely new for us, we need to debug our code templates to get sure >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> the rest is OK while the only thing we need to concern is the algorithm >>>>>>>> itself. For now I experience lack of information at least for the Edgy >>>>>>>> Baking problem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 1:11:57 PM UTC-4, Pablo Heiber wrote: >>>>>>>> > Hi Alex, >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > We've been asked this several times, and our policy is not to >>>>>>>> reveal test data. If you are interested about the reasoning, you can >>>>>>>> refer >>>>>>>> to old threads in this group that discuss the topic, like this one. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Best, >>>>>>>> > Pablo >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 9:47 AM Alex Wice <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> > Please make input/output test case data available after contests >>>>>>>> end, when appropriate (non-interactive problems.) It is a simple text >>>>>>>> file. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > I can't debug some problems and it would be really nice to know >>>>>>>> what cases I failed. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>> Google Groups "Google Code Jam" group. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-code/740c351f- >>>>>>>> d013-4307-b092-d37a68d527d4%40googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Google Code Jam" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-code/4e017025- >>>>>>>> b972-47df-8198-08669daa3f87%40googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Google Code Jam" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-code/ >>>>>>> CANa5jcAAcw7VxGFS9e5gq%2B-usyiyqCgCtq%2B_R_TNYCr%2Bt_ >>>>>>> 3tsA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> 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