You are not really going to get what you want with any web language although some of the frameworks will let you look like all the other sites that use that framework, and the 'instant web site' and 'web site in a box' applications will let you choose from a number of themes.
Desktop apps have a look and feel because they are extending the OS and for a long time you had no choice as to what they looked like, you could only move stuff around the window - even the widgets were/are standard like the file-picker in VB et al. There's more freedom in the web, but the price is that you have to do a bit of work. GWT *does* let you 'just use Java'. You are picking a very specific use of Java and saying you can't use it like that. Like complaining that you can't use a pencil for sketching because it doesn't draw circles properly like it does when it's in a compass :-) GWT aims to let you write Java and get JavaScript - it does that. It doesn't claim to have you write Java and get CSS or images. Ian http://examples.roughian.com 2008/12/7 David Hoffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hi Gregor, > > Thanks for the reply. I don't disagree with what you say, I'm sure I > do need to learn CSS and specifically how GWT makes use of it. > > However I do want to point out that I think Google missed it a little > in this area. The fundamental selling point of GWT for us at least is > that we can stay with our well known programing language/technique > (Java) and write a high quality web app as well. Actually in our case > we are taking it one step further our app is implemented in both Swing > and GWT. The Swing & GWT UI layers are as thin as possible, all the > business logic is shared between both implementations. You can think > of our app as a pure MVC app where the M & C are shared and only the > view is separate code. > > However since GWT did not let us set the L&L in Java code its not > really true that you can just use Java. Perhaps there are reasons for > this I will understand when I learn CSS but I would have preferred > that GWT provide some satisfactory L&L right out of the box and also > allow developers to write specialized CSS. > > You are right that web apps don't typically behave like platform apps > (Windows, Mac), I was only using those as examples. The simple GWT > style could be something else. > > I will check out Ian's web site and see if I can get up to speed on CSS > quickly. > > -Dave > > On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 6:32 AM, gregor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > Hi Dave, > > > > I think you really need to get to grips with CSS, the HTML box model > > and learn to use GIMP/Photoshop to work effectively with GWT - or hire > > a graphic designer to get you off the ground. As Ian says, you get the > > L&F for free in Swing, SWT or .NET, but you don't in javascript/HTML > > > > JS libraries with GWT wrappers like the Ext family and SmartGWT offer > > out of the box windows L&F and widget sets. But this comes at a heavy > > price in terms of performance since it all has to be meticulously > > drawn in HTML bit by teeny bit. They may look very pretty, but your > > users will soon tire of that if they have to wait seconds for the app > > to respond every time they click a button. > > > > I would revisit your UI design strategy and assumptions. IMO you do > > not need to slavishly follow windows idioms to write a good business > > application UI in GWT - and GWT apps work like greased lightning if > > you don't. You just need to think out of the box and play to javacript/ > > DHTML and the browser's strengths rather than fight against the grain > > of how they work. > > > > Another thing to consider is that most everyone knows the difference > > between a desktop app and a web app - they use both every day - so > > they are comfortable with both styles. The more windows style idioms > > you put in a GWT application the more signals you are giving the user > > that "This app works like a desktop app" so you find yourself on a > > slippery slope of having to make *everything* emulate the desktop > > style to meet that expectation. Very expensive to write and > > performance sapping. > > > > On the other hand your users might equally say "Ah ha, this app works > > like a web app. It works really fast too. Cool". Ask yourself why > > Google didn't copy Outlook when they designed GMail's UI. > > > > regards > > gregor > > > > On Dec 7, 3:25 am, "Ian Bambury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Desktop apps are styled by the OS to fit the look and feel. You don't > get > >> many desktop app designers. Some, but not many. No one asks for VB and > >> PhotoShop. > >> People don't expect web sites to look exactly like a Mac. Especially not > on > >> a Windows machine. > >> > >> HTML doesn't come with a standard (or any) look. Nor does JavaScript. > And > >> GWT is HTML and JavaScript. > >> > >> And no-one wants their web site to look exactly like someone else's. > >> > >> Sorry, but I think you are going to have to let your creative flair > loose. > >> You might even get to like it. > >> > >> Ian > >> > >> http://examples.roughian.com > >> > >> 2008/12/7 David Hoffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Well I'm new to GWT and I don't know CSS. > >> > >> > What I would like is CSS for the standard GWT widgets & panels that > >> > would give some some standard look (such as a Windows platform look). > >> > I applied one of the standard GWT themes and it helped some, > >> > especially menus but buttons, trees, etc look quite bad. > >> > >> > As another example, I would like DialogBox panels to have a > >> > frame/window around them; currently there is no frame so they don't > >> > don't even look like a modal frame with a caption bar that you can > >> > drag around, etc. Essentially I would like the GUI to look like a > >> > Windows or Mac application. With this look I can begin to show the > >> > application to gain acceptance of GWT, with the current look they are > >> > not likely to be impressed. > >> > >> > I would have thought someone would have created standard CSS for this. > >> > Perhaps I don't understand how CSS works in GWT. > >> > >> > -Dave > >> > >> > On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 6:56 PM, Arthur Kalmenson < > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > wrote: > >> > >> > > What do you mean provide simple information? The standard theme > gives > >> > > you some basic GWT themes while you work through your application. > The > >> > > CSS class for each widget is available in the Javadoc. > >> > >> > > -- > >> > > Arthur Kalmenson > >> > >> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 10:50 AM, dhoffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> I'm coming from a Java background and new to GWT and I don't know > >> > >> CSS. Is there some sample/basic CSS available I can use until I am > >> > >> able to get up-to-speed on CSS? > >> > >> > >> I am using <inherits > >> > >> name='com.google.gwt.user.theme.standard.Standard'/> in my xml file > >> > >> but that only seems to provide very basic style information. > >> > >> > >> Does someone have some standard/simple CSS available for standard > GWT > >> > >> widgets/panels? > >> > >> > >> -Dave > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Web-Toolkit?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
