I skimmed, so forgiveness please in advance if I am repeating points already made...
This isn't to say that I am opposed to having public logs of *project* channels, but I see two problems that I think should be addressed: 1. Trying to keep up with a project by reading IRC logs (or watching meeting videos) is a lot to ask for many people. This takes a lot of time and someone could end up spending all their day reading logs and watching videos to stay informed. We need to make sure that sharing the logs addresses the case of people who hang out regularly and just want to catch what they missed. We need to make sure that teams do *not* say "if you want to follow us, read the logs." 2. When there is a channel list, it is easy for you to think that this list of people is your audience. I've noticed the same thing when streaming a meeting over vidyo to an audience. You forget that the participants you can't see are there. Logging to share with other people who generally hang out in a channel is one thing. Publicly logging is another. It could be very easy for someone to use the logs to "quote" a "Mozilla developer." Humans behave differently depending on their audience, even if we make a policy that logs will be public, this hidden audience member will be forgotten until something gets publicly taken out of context. Mozilla has a dearth of good note takers, in terms of solving transparency I would be more in favor of trying to solve that problem, not using public logs to solve it. I am in favor of having logs accessible for Mozillians to solve the problem of people who do follow the team missing conversations when they're disconnected. On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Trevor Saunders <[email protected]> wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 05:51:01PM -0800, Benjamin Kerensa wrote: > > It can be if we want to achieve the goal of having a central place the > > project and users and downstream partners can refer back to. Community > > logs.glob.uno is the central place, so no that's not a problem. > > > hosted things are not a guaranteed thing while MoCo hosted infra has a > > better chance of longevity. > > imho there's nothing special about moco, its just a very large comunity > member. That said if you really want logs stored on a moco server you > only need to convince moco to pay to copy the logs from logbot you don't > need a policy. > > Trev > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Gavin Sharp <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > You can ask glob to add logbot to it (http://logs.glob.uno/). It can > "go > > > away at any time", sure, but that doesn't seem like a big deal in > practice. > > > > > > Gavin > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:29 PM, L. David Baron <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > On Friday 2015-01-23 17:08 -0800, Gavin Sharp wrote: > > > > > I should perhaps clarify, though, that I don't really think > there's a > > > > > need for a project-wide policy to enforce that channels must be > > > > > logged, and that's probably what Yvan is reacting strongly to. > Most of > > > > > the important public IRC channels are already being publicly > logged, > > > > > as mentioned, and where they aren't it's easy enough to reach out > to > > > > > the channel owner and change that. > > > > > > > > As a channel owner, who do I ask to change that? Or am I supposed > > > > to set up my own server? Or rely on some other member of the > > > > community whose server might go away at any time? > > > > > > > > -David > > > > > > > > -- > > > > 𝄞 L. David Baron http://dbaron.org/ 𝄂 > > > > 𝄢 Mozilla https://www.mozilla.org/ 𝄂 > > > > Before I built a wall I'd ask to know > > > > What I was walling in or walling out, > > > > And to whom I was like to give offense. > > > > - Robert Frost, Mending Wall (1914) > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > governance mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Benjamin Kerensa > > Mozilla Rep > > http://mozillausa.org > > _______________________________________________ > > governance mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance > _______________________________________________ > governance mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance > _______________________________________________ governance mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance
