yes, there could be many silences and voices... and it is possible without having the 'proud' feeling of representing all. but highlighting certain discourses in red color as dominant agreein that which (only) will the total system in danger can have some 'unjustifiable' inclination. human right violations, terror and brutality are there all over the world. brutality is not the determining factor to make a discourse dominant..
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 9:12 PM, Dileep Raj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I find each situation relevant. But would like to highlight this line in > Afthab's first post. > > > Why Kashmir is excluded from our consciousness? > > > > > > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:41 PM, ranju radha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> >> in the same vein.. >> though there r many discourses, and one discourse dominate >> is it possible to look at one dominating silence? >> even the possibilities are many >> a conflation of such various negotiations may lead to one in that >> partcular juncture >> >> >> On 5/2/08, Dileep Raj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> In a Foucauldian vein... >>> >>> There are many silences and many voices. Let us not >>> think of one SILENECE . There could be many ways in which one could be >>> silent in many discurisve situations. >>> >>> Issues involving 'national integrity" has always defined the limits of >>> human rights discourse in Kerala/ India. There is a subtel conflation >>> of Indian with Hindu behind this. >>> >>> Just think of Maram Rasheeda, Maudani, Sirajunneesa.. >>> >>> On 5/2/08, ranju radha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> > silence could be for multiple reasons. however, My silence on the issue >>> of >>> > muslims shows/expose my ideological/political inclinations. I should >>> accept >>> > that. Some people who proclaim to "represent" ALL cant digest it. They >>> would >>> > like to see themselves as saviours of ALL. Silence becomes a "violent" >>> > weapon for them. silences are romantisized under the guise of >>> democracy. >>> > though they have every right to remain silent, it exposes their >>> ideological >>> > inclinations. one should be sincere enough to accept it. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On 5/2/08, Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> > > >>> > > There have been some members here who have shown tendencies towards >>> grand >>> > > revolutions.... But that apart, when it comes to issues of caste - >>> let me >>> > > draw a parallel to feminism - silence most often regardless of the >>> mens >>> > rea >>> > > needs to be constructed as violence for no other reason, but how >>> embedded >>> > it >>> > > is within us. >>> > > >>> > > I am tempted to point out the anthropologist, Saul Zuratas in Mario >>> > > Vargas Llosa's *Storyteller, *his attitudes and assumptions, despite >>> > > which he cannot completely discard the epistemological baggage that >>> made >>> > him >>> > > commit the first act of love viz. become a story teller amongst the >>> > > Machiguengas. The book beautifully explores the relationship between >>> the >>> > > global, national and tribal societies and the themes of centre and >>> > > periphery. Whats interesting is that the same Llosa (once a grand >>> admirer >>> > of >>> > > Castro), became a neo-liberal candidate for presidency in 1990s (he >>> argues >>> > > his case fervently in *A fish in the water) *and now is reportedly >>> > > supporting the extreme right. While it does not change the stature or >>> > skills >>> > > of Llosa as a writer, but his positions on the same indegineous >>> > populations >>> > > become problematic and violent by his silence, which also acts as a >>> > complete >>> > > denial of these communities. (I deliberately picked this story from >>> latin >>> > > america for distance sometimes provides clarity). The same way, >>> silence on >>> > > caste by people who claim some politics can be constructed as >>> problematic. >>> > > >>> > > *Caveat: *I am not suggesting that everyone should respond to all >>> issues, >>> > > nor am I suggesting that everyone who remain silent are castiest - >>> the >>> > > silence could be for multiple reasons. I am just trying to think >>> aloud on >>> > > situations where silence could be violent >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On 01/05/2008, Afthab Ellath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > > *nor did i imagine that he was referring the vacuumized >>> representation >>> > > > of marginalized people in history, which is clearly undebatable.* >>> > > > >>> > > > When we talk about this exclusion, it is not total... It is >>> > > > selective... Gujarat riots was covered, in length... Nandigram was >>> > > > covered... Even human rights violation in kashmir were covered >>> > > > selectively... But when an issue puts the total system in danger, >>> it is >>> > > > excluded.... There is no conspiracy .. The exclusion happens >>> without any >>> > > > deliberate exercise of power... >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:19 PM, salimtk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > *I was mentioning about our cold response to this report... Did >>> we >>> > > > > take it as a serious matter? I worry, we didn't * >>> > > > > >>> > > > > above line is aftab's. >>> > > > > when he said like OUR cold response and WE didnt take it serious, >>> i >>> > > > > cudnt imagine that he was referring to the historians, media >>> people, >>> > > > > intellectuals, cultural leaders etc. nor did i imagine that he >>> was >>> > > > > referring the vacuumized representation of marginalized people in >>> > history, >>> > > > > which is clearly undebatable. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > instead it reminded me of some who alleged the 'brahmanic' >>> silence on >>> > > > > the members of this group in regarding to certain 'dalit' related >>> > mails. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > does this group hold any compulsion of mandatory responses to all >>> the >>> > > > > mails forwarded here? do we need to be 'hot' all the time? >>> > > > > r v selective in being silent and in cutting mails on certain >>> topics >>> > > > > only? NO. what i felt is most of the members here respond >>> impulsively >>> > with >>> > > > > no 'grand' revolutionary intentions. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Bobby Kunhu < >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> > > > > wrote: >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > > "Silence" is definitely a democratic right, but a right that >>> has to >>> > > > > > be exercised within the structural hegemony that constructs >>> each one >>> > of our >>> > > > > > individual politics and places us within our respective >>> identities >>> > (to be >>> > > > > > blunt - shows us our place as a dalit, adivasi, muslim, woman, >>> gay, >>> > > > > > transgendered, disabled etc.), be it within media, academia, >>> high >>> > culture or >>> > > > > > just folklore. For instance, my school history text-books or >>> general >>> > > > > > discussions never included any account of the anti-brahmin >>> movement >>> > or >>> > > > > > people like Jyothi Thass and this is the matriculation syllabus >>> in a >>> > > > > > linguistically and culturally proud state like Tamil Nadu. >>> Neither >>> > was the >>> > > > > > history of Kashmir an issue. In this regard "silence" becomes >>> > violence by >>> > > > > > virtue of being an act of ommission - deliberate or otherwise. >>> > > > > > In this group itself there has been outrage expressed by >>> various >>> > > > > > members, for instance on the issue of selective silence on the >>> part >>> > of >>> > > > > > certain members with respect to Chengara - wouldn't that >>> silence >>> > tantamount >>> > > > > > to violence? I believe the same silence to be violence respect >>> to >>> > caste and >>> > > > > > issues like Kashmir or North East that do not reflect too well >>> on >>> > our >>> > > > > > "national" or "patriotic" ethos >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 1:46 PM, ranju radha < >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> > > > > wrote: >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > > when u writehistory of a region and remain silent on many >>> aspects- >>> > > > > > movemnts, historical figures, culture of particular socail >>> grp.-- >>> > and still >>> > > > > > want to escape quoting democratic right to be "silent", such >>> > politcal >>> > > > > > mimicry is highly condemnable. the civil society's concerns are >>> > clearly >>> > > > > > reflctd on these "silences".. so dont treat 'silence' as an >>> innocent >>> > act... >>> > > > > > one may not be blamed but exposed by silences .. >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > > On 5/1/08, Afthab Ellath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > I was mentioning about our cold response to this report... >>> Did >>> > > > > > > > we take it as a serious matter? I worry, we didn't >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 1:19 PM, salimtk < >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> > > > > > > > wrote: >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > afthab, >>> > > > > > > > > u mean the report of mass grave at uri area in kashmir is >>> > > > > > > > > wrong? or the civil society responses and actions to it? >>> > > > > > > > > what is wrong if the reporting and the actions done in >>> the >>> > > > > > > > > name of indian democracy? >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > On 5/1/08, Afthab Ellath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > This is quite odd... Why Kashmir is excluded from our >>> > > > > > > > > > consciousness? I would like to believe that this report >>> is >>> > not true... But >>> > > > > > > > > > if it is, this is done in the name of Indian democracy, >>> that >>> > we are >>> > > > > > > > > > responsible for... >>> > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Anivar Aravind < >>> > > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> > > > > > > > > > > From: *Khurram Parvez* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > ASSOCIATION OF PARENTS OF DISAPPEARED PERSONS >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > >>> ___________________________________________________________________________ >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > _Press Release_ >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > / /*/28^th April 2008/* >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > This is exactly one month after we released a report >>> of a >>> > > > > > > > > > > fact finding >>> > > > > > > > > > > mission on nameless graves and mass graves in Uri >>> area >>> > > > > > > > > > > titled 'Facts >>> > > > > > > > > > > Under Ground' which evoked response from the media, >>> human >>> > > > > > > > > > > rights groups, >>> > > > > > > > > > > politicians and political formations of various hues, >>> > > > > > > > > > > civil society and >>> > > > > > > > > > > people at large. >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > We want to utilize this occasion to >>> > > > > > > > > > > appreciate, thank and >>> > > > > > > > > > > criticize the concerned on their response; and to >>> make >>> > > > > > > > > > > requests and >>> > > > > > > > > > > demands for fresh, comprehensive and sustained >>> responses >>> > > > > > > > > > > from the stake >>> > > > > > > > > > > holders i.e. the local and international civil >>> society and >>> > > > > > > > > > > HR Groups, >>> > > > > > > > > > > Political formations and resistance Groups, local and >>> > > > > > > > > > > international >>> > > > > > > > > > > media, lawyers' groups, international humanitarian >>> > > > > > > > > > > agencies and people. >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > First of all we appreciate the local print media for >>> the >>> > > > > > > > > > > coverage given >>> > > > > > > > > > > to the report. We urge for a sustained campaign of >>> follow >>> > > > > > > > > > > up reporting >>> > > > > > > > > > > to build a more compelling case for urgent >>> international >>> > > > > > > > > > > expert and >>> > > > > > > > > > > humanitarian intervention in order to initiate >>> credible >>> > > > > > > > > > > measures to >>> > > > > > > > > > > establish the identity of those buried in these >>> graves and >>> > > > > > > > > > > seek linkages >>> > > > > > > > > > > with the thousands subjected to Enforced >>> Disappearance by >>> > > > > > > > > > > the state >>> > > > > > > > > > > security agencies in Kashmir from 1989 till date. The >>> > > > > > > > > > > families of the >>> > > > > > > > > > > disappeared have neither the resources nor the >>> expertise >>> > > > > > > > > > > to carry out >>> > > > > > > > > > > either the job of comprehensive reporting or the task >>> of >>> > > > > > > > > > > scientific >>> > > > > > > > > > > exhumation and identification of those buried in >>> these >>> > > > > > > > > > > nameless graves >>> > > > > > > > > > > and mass graves. >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > We have received more reports of the existence of >>> mass >>> > > > > > > > > > > graves and >>> > > > > > > > > > > nameless graves, some of which has already been >>> reported >>> > > > > > > > > > > by a section of >>> > > > > > > > > > > the local press. We expect people and the media to be >>> more >>> > > > > > > > > > > proactive in >>> > > > > > > > > > > reporting about the existence of such graves with all >>> the >>> > > > > > > > > > > available >>> > > > > > > > > > > detail and local narratives about them. This will >>> bring >>> > > > > > > > > > > their existence >>> > > > > > > > > > > into public knowledge and thereby help in >>> safeguarding the >>> > > > > > > > > > > grave sites >>> > > > > > > > > > > from tampering. We request the people to take all >>> steps >>> > > > > > > > > > > necessary to >>> > > > > > > > > > > safeguard these sites from any kind of interference >>> till >>> > > > > > > > > > > such time as we >>> > > > > > > > > > > are able to garner the support and intervention of >>> > > > > > > > > > > internationally >>> > > > > > > > > > > credible expert and humanitarian bodies to undertake >>> a >>> > > > > > > > > > > thorough exercise >>> > > > > > > > > > > of identifying these bodies. We believe some of those >>> > > > > > > > > > > subjected to >>> > > > > > > > > > > enforced disappearance are buried in these graves and >>> the >>> > > > > > > > > > > process of >>> > > > > > > > > > > identification, that we are demanding, will provide >>> some >>> > > > > > > > > > > relief to the >>> > > > > > > > > > > families whose kin have disappeared, will enable a >>> decent >>> > > > > > > > > > > burial of the >>> > > > > > > > > > > victims and contribute to producing the necessary >>> evidence >>> > > > > > > > > > > against the >>> > > > > > > > > > > perpetrators thus help in breaking the culture of >>> impunity >>> > > > > > > > > > > enjoyed by >>> > > > > > > > > > > the state security agencies. It is the moral and >>> > > > > > > > > > > humanitarian duty of >>> > > > > > > > > > > the local people to do whatever is possible to >>> safeguard >>> > > > > > > > > > > these sites and >>> > > > > > > > > > > the bounden duty of the local media persons to take >>> extra >>> > > > > > > > > > > pains to >>> > > > > > > > > > > unearth these skeletons and ferret out the truth in >>> all >>> > > > > > > > > > > its ugly detail. >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > We expect the local lawyer community to take up the >>> issue >>> > > > > > > > > > > in the >>> > > > > > > > > > > relevant forums, file PIL and undertake a legal >>> campaign >>> > > > > > > > > > > to force the >>> > > > > > > > > > > Government and its security agencies to come out with >>> > > > > > > > > > > verifiable truth >>> > > > > > > > > > > and fix responsibility for these crimes as it is the >>> > > > > > > > > > > government and its >>> > > > > > > > > > > security agencies who are the ultimate repositories >>> of >>> > > > > > > > > > > information about >>> > > > > > > > > > > these graves and also about those disappeared >>> > > > > > > > > > > involuntarily while in >>> > > > > > > > > > > their custody. >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > We impress upon the local political >>> formations >>> > > > > > > > > > > of all hues >>> > > > > > > > > > > to encourage people to provide more information about >>> > > > > > > > > > > these and other >>> > > > > > > > > > > grave sites and to take necessary measures to >>> safeguard >>> > > > > > > > > > > these sites from >>> > > > > > > > > > > tampering or interference considering them as an >>> extremely >>> > > > > > > > > > > sensitive and >>> > > > > > > > > > > a sacred trust with them. >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > We express our satisfaction at the issue >>> of >>> > > > > > > > > > > comprehensive >>> > > > > > > > > > > statements by various humanitarian groups >>> particularly the >>> > > > > > > > > > > Amnesty >>> > > > > > > > > > > International and the Asian Federation Against >>> Involuntary >>> > > > > > > > > > > Disappearances (AFAD) demanding that India should >>> > > > > > > > > > > investigate all >>> > > > > > > > > > > allegations of enforced disappearances in Jammu & >>> Kashmir >>> > > > > > > > > > > following >>> > > > > > > > > > > reports of mass graves. >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > We expect the international humanitarian >>> > > > > > > > > > > bodies particularly >>> > > > > > > > > > > the Amnesty International and AFAD to initiate steps >>> > > > > > > > > > > toward >>> > > > > > > > > > > implementation of their demands by lobbying with the >>> > > > > > > > > > > relevant credible >>> > > > > > > > > > > international bodies. >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > We also urge the ICRC, which is operating >>> in >>> > > > > > > > > > > Kashmir to >>> > > > > > > > > > > volunteer their expertise on this issue. >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > We understand the callous attitude of the >>> > > > > > > > > > > state security >>> > > > > > > > > > > agencies in dismissing our findings as a result of >>> their >>> > > > > > > > > > > direct >>> > > > > > > > > > > involvement in these crimes as is borne out by the >>> various >>> > > > > > > > > > > fake >>> > > > > > > > > > > encounters and custodial killings documented and >>> reported >>> > > > > > > > > > > extensively. >>> > > > > > > > > > > We believe that this callous and inhuman attitude of >>> the >>> > > > > > > > > > > security >>> > > > > > > > > > > agencies springs from the culture of impunity >>> produced as >>> > > > > > > > > > > a result of >>> > > > > > > > > > > the draconian laws operating in Jammu and Kashmir, >>> which >>> > > > > > > > > > > do not allow >>> > > > > > > > > > > the families of the victims to pursue their cases >>> > > > > > > > > > > productively. >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > We believe that this report should be a >>> cause >>> > > > > > > > > > > of alarm for >>> > > > > > > > > > > those with a human heart and a concrete basis for the >>> > > > > > > > > > > international >>> > > > > > > > > > > expert groups and humanitarian and human rights >>> bodies for >>> > > > > > > > > > > initiating an >>> > > > > > > > > > > urgent action to probe the matter. >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > Spokesperson >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > Ghulam Nabi Mir >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> > > > -- > Dileep R I thuravoor > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. 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