--- On Sat, 6/28/08, CK VISHWANATH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: CK VISHWANATH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Fwd: On Online Dalit Activism
> To: "C.K. Vishwanath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 8:12 PM
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: CHITTIBABU PADAVALA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 1:13 PM
> Subject: On Online Dalit Activism
> To: ck vishwanath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> Dear Vishwanath,
>
> This is the corrected version prepared for posting in
> humanhorizons
> group. I invite comments and corrections from you and your
> friends.
> Yes, there is vast literarature which shows how some new
> ways of
> resistence could take place with the help of online
> networks and
> communication. I am here talking about a different case in
> which I
> exclusively focussed on something negative.
>
> Chitti
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: CHITTIBABU PADAVALA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Jun 22, 2008 3:30 PM
> Subject: [humanhorizons] Seeking part time writers to write
> on Social issues
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
> Dear Sachin and friends,
>
> I was writing this when you posted another mail which I did
> not check
> it up in time. Your recent post makes some of the issues I
> have
> mentioned here redundant yet I am not doing necessary
> rewriting now.
> So, posting it as it is. Forgive me for the length of the
> post. I am
> sure you will be annoyed enough with it that you would
> continue with
> the 100-200 word limit for the posts in your website
> seriously :)
>
>
> Your idea is basically very, very interesting and promising
> and the
> openness with which you approach the project is also
> encouraging. The
> idea of talking a resourceful organization like Yahoo group
> into
> helping you in this, if proved successful, would be highly
> effective.
> However, openness, a must for the kind of activity you
> embarked on,
> not properly presented looks like vagueness.
>
> We really need very brief online commentaries and write-ups
> in 100-200
> word size. As of now, some people are doing the very useful
> work of
> putting togther all news about dalits and essays on dalit
> themes
> published in various dailies and magazines as news letters
> sending to
> our mails regularly. With their wonderful work, we get all
> dalit news
> in one place and we could go back to it at any moment. It
> is really a
> great work and giving us back a world wide dalit idenity
> while also
> making us aware of internal variations and saving us from
> parochially
> imagining our dalit identity. But, this noble work has one
> inherent
> limitation which can't be corrected from within. It is
> just putting
> together what media is saying and writing. It can't
> help us what media
> supresses or ignores or distorts. We need our own sources
> of news
> that go beyond the mainstream medias limitations and
> censors. Your
> idea of a website with brief news and opinion drawn from
> independent
> sources will surely bring a revolution of sorts in
> independent dalit
> media online. It suits the needs and interests of the
> online
> communities very well. It also trains many people
> -otherwise hesitant
> to write sustained pieces despite having flashes of
> insights - in
> regularly communicating with larger readership online.
> News,
> perspectives and feelings of dalits doesn't have to
> wait till a news
> paper or magazine publishes them. By quickly going through
> scores of
> 100-200 word snippets, one could get a overview of our
> concerns very
> easily. Particularly, college students and activists with
> basic
> english competence will also be encouraged to read things
> english,
> online. This is what we do very often, when we are busy or
> have less
> time: we skim through the heddings of various postings to
> have an idea
> 'what is happening around' if only to get back to
> the write-ups for at
> leisure to find out things in full.
>
> Brief articles, notes, commentary are very effective
> because those
> recently got conscientized about dalit concerns, less time
> or those
> without easy access to internet and its language could also
> be
> encouraged look for information on dalit issues and
> contribute their
> views and share information they know. Of course, brief
> commentaries
> could serve many purposes but can't substitute the need
> for in-depth
> or full analysis and reporting that require more space. But
> this
> problem could be easily solved by providing links to each
> brief
> comment or post to lead to extensive treatment available
> online on
> other sites.
>
> As Saint rightly pointed out, full details of the project
> are to be
> clearly outlined so that the wonderful idea you proposed
> could get
> highest attention and help it deserves. It needs readers,
> contributors, funders and of course, as Sain't post
> implies, a
> direction.
>
> Generally, the standard practice of online groups of this
> kind is to
> come up with an open request outlining one's ideas,
> specifying the
> quantum of available resources and clarifying the
> limitations and
> calling for suggestions and help and seeking partnerships.
> Such method
> makes it a really collaborative project which is a must for
> any social
> activity. This is even more important because of a curious
> thing
> happening these days: I noticed many grassroots and campus
> activists
> resent what they call "Internet activism".
>
> Their complaint is, roughly speaking, that increasingly
> dalit activism
> is being colonized, ted and even REPLACED by those
> who do
> nothing other than just forwarding the posts of others with
> scant
> regard for the struggles that happen in the real world and
> the need
> for working with and among those majority dalits who
> don't have access
> to net.
>
> Though I don't agree with an understandable but
> unacceptable feeling
> among these critics that online activism is somehow a
> non-action or
> inferior activity -or worse, armchair activism- their
> feeling is based
> on one very disturbing and real feature many people have
> noted. This
> is the problem or the question of a new division - what
> could clumsily
> be put as- between those online dalit activists and offline
> dalit
> activists. It would not have been difficult to quickly
> recognize or
> reorganize this difference as just another instance of
> complementary
> work had it not been for the stupid NGO funding principles
> and
> practices.
>
> This unfortunate situation is based on many
> misunderstandings, I
> contend. However, I will focus now mostly on the validity
> of this
> suspicion against online activism. Dalit sensibilities are
> increasingly being listened to and even taken up by NGOs,
> academicians
> and even Media not only because sensitization is happening
> and they
> could no longer be suppressed or ignored but also because
> now dalit
> sensibilites and concerns could be money and career
> fetching projects,
> new academic topics or CV enhancing activities.
>
> NGOs and Academic institutions tend to fund or favour
> those with
> demonstrated activist backgrounds. There is a problem with
> the kind of
> criteria they foolishly(or is it sheer cunning?) work with.
> By
> 'demonstrated', they mean 'recorded,' while
> most of the dalit activism
> does not leave traces on the paper or hypertext but on the
> hearts and
> minds of people and the way they live and are treated by
> others. What
> is more, most of the time, the best aspects of dalit
> activism CANNOT
> be recorded for legal and practical reasons. This, combined
> with a
> much less serious problem- but nevertheless a problem- of
> being Dalit
> becoming an attractive and even a profitable label.
>
> In some very rare places like academia and social sector
> which are
> (relatively) not overtly and universally anti-dalit or have
> a policy
> of giving some dalits some due, calling oneself a Dalit is
> not always
> dangerous and sometimes even immediately
> 'beneficial'- though limited
> to low level positions and exhibitable favours, to be sure.
> Of course,
> such is our right and we should have more of it. We should
> demand
> those for every dalit rather than resenting those have
> gotten them.
> However, this problem is not that very simple.
>
> Dalit activism is increasingly being defined more by
> one's ability to
> write and read and not by the patient and dirty labor of
> doing
> leg-work and patient mobilization of people and waging
> struggles on
> the ground-often involving fights with the police and other
> repressive
> and powerful in the society. Even a decade ago, we could
> not have
> imagined a dalit activist being aloof from the community
> and without
> having the 'experience' either of being a victim or
> at least, in
> fighting against caste oppression. Very frequently dalit
> activists
> used to be both.
>
> Now, there emerged a new category of Dalits: children of
> those lucky
> enough to escape the worst of the caste oppression AND have
> an access
> to better( if you compare them with ONLY other dalits and
> NOT with
> their upper-caste peers) education and some means of decent
> living,
> asserting themselves as Dalits and even Dalit Activists. We
> dalits are
> lucky enough to have at least some of us escape the worst
> of caste
> based oppression and its consequences. It is a happy news
> that they
> see themselves rightly as dalits and interested in working
> for their
> less fortunate or disadvantaged dalit sisters and brothers.
> Yet, it is
> also true that many people escape the caste oppression not
> always by
> assertion, struggle, education and some economic
> advancement but also
> by running away from the community, hiding their identity
> and adopting
> the oppressor's ways and some such less glorifying
> ways. There is
> nothing fundamentally wrong in such survival strategies and
> it is the
> system which imposes such not so dignified means on the
> survivors that
> is at fault.
>
> Thus qualified, this section of dalits poses a danger to
> the usual
> radicality, humaneness and effectiveness of dalit activism.
> All
> survivors could participate in the dalit movements, but let
> us be
> clear about it, we should reserve the leadership only to
> those
> fighters against, not just survivors of, caste injustice!
> Survivors
> are not the only problem, there is further sub-catagory
> among them,
> beneficiaries: those who realized that being a dalit, if
> you could
> rightly and cleverly use it, could be a means of
> career-making.
> Academia, NGOs and, now, cyber space are some exceptional
> places where
> these people could gain modest 'benefits' by
> invoking their dalithood.
>
> The problem lies not in the benefits they get- every one of
> us deserve
> them- but in allowing such people to define the dalit
> agenda and even
> ting dalit struggles. Such people can get these
> benefits only in
> some select, limited places which are a very small fraction
> of the
> world. But, many of them are confined to this tiny world
> and no
> intention to venture into uncomfortable places. Such people
> are not
> very difficult to be spotted in the actual world of dalit
> activism
> because it involves a lot of tiresome, thankless and risky,
> hard work,
> sometime a threat to life and most of the time a sure
> damage to
> personal career and this kind of people quickly disappear
> or don't
> know how to persist in the face of dangers. But, they could
> pass for
> revolutionaries online. This wonderful medium, online
> communication,
> has this particular disadvantage.
>
> Then, what is my contention? Am I dividing dalits into
> authentic and
> inauthentic dalits? Or, privileging or recognizing only
> suffering and
> fighting and denigrating those with less experience in
> these?
> Definitely not. If these less unfortunate sisters and
> brothers of us
> happen to make use of their relative advantage to gain
> skills(education, positions, wealth, power, exposure)
> denied to the
> rest of us and put them to the service of the enlightenment
> of the
> society in general and dalits in particular, they are most
> welcome.
> Otherwise, it is necessary to put them in place to save the
> radical
> and revolutionary nature of dalit activism. This strategy
> is
> particularly important because many not so responsible
> people among
> these less unfortunate dalit sections make use of dalit
> identity as a
> means to defend their failings which can't be
> attributed to caste or
> other oppressions. It is precisely this category people who
> make the
> very mention of dalithood some sort of begging strategy.
>
> Well, this is mostly a caricature and an abstraction. It is
> necessary
> for highlighting some important points but the reality is
> much more
> messy and complicated. Sachin, I think you need to be
> careful with
> those who want to serve themselves more than the cause. Of
> course,
> your both posts clearly show that you are a capable and
> sensitive
> thinker and definitely do wonders with your excellent
> project.
> Credibility comes over a period of time with consistent
> maintenance of
> standards in the field of media. Information is only part
> of the story
> about media, influence is the point and it comes only with
> credibility
> and the promise of continual existence. And, reach,
> resources are
> secondary matters while the credibility is THE thing for
> any Mass
> Medium. For this to achieve, it is important not only to
> attract good
> content but even more important is to keeping away
> swindlers. You have
> already attracted so much attention and inspired
> expectations from
> activists.
>
> If you prepare a note answering all the clarifications
> Mr.Saint asked
> you it would become an announcement with all necessary
> details. Please
> separate vision and procedure in your announcement. What
> ideas you
> propose is a different thing altogether from who are the
> members of
> editorial board and how frequently content will be updated,
> who does
> the copy-editing and who pays for them and what are the
> technical
> guidelines for the contributors, how do you do
> fact-checking and how
> much the contributors are paid ( or do you call for
> un-remunerative
> contributions) and how do you get such huge money and who
> are the
> funders? etc,. One fake atrocity reported on the website
> could do
> considerable damage to the reputation and effectiveness of
> the
> website. And, the problem of cross-checking the validity of
> a news of
> atrocity not reported by "mainmedia" is not an
> easy job though stakes
> are very high.
>
> Such information is a must for running any credible online
> journalistic enterprise. Online dalit journalism is
> particularly prone
> to attacks, those otherwise fear our reprisals in the real
> world could
> also be emboldened to write things to discredit and malign
> us because
> they could afford anonymity or impersonation online.
> Inability to
> reach out to non-dalit sections much is the limitation of
> many of our
> dalit websites and so far this limitation is sparing dalit
> networks
> and websites from attacks. Absolute transparency is a must
> for
> surviving such future attacks that will surely come if you
> run a
> really radical and credible dalit website that could reach
> out to the
> entire society.
>
> Chittibabu Padavala
>
>
>
> On 6/21/08, rajesh ingle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > jai bheem
> >
> > do agree with you saint..
> >
> > bye
> >
> > sun shines against all odds!
> > Rajesh Ingle,Lecturer
> > College of Social Work
> > Mumbai
> >
> > --- On Sat, 21/6/08, Saint
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > From: Saint <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: [humanhorizons] Seeking part time writers
> to write on Social issues
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date: Saturday, 21 June, 2008, 4:39 AM
> >
> > To Sachin and All,
> > I am still not clear about what this part time writers
> are for?
> >
> > Ambiguity here?:
> > Where are you going to publish?
> > who is the so called editor or editors?
> > Is this is dalit media, if so, what is the background
> of this platform?
> > Are you starting something new or is it an existing
> media?
> > Is this for an online or offline publications?
> > such clarifications might help better understand the
> objectives of seeking writers.
> >
> > thanks,
> > Saint
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 6/19/08, sachin kumar chander
> <sachin_chander@ yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: sachin kumar chander <sachin_chander@
> yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [humanhorizons] Seeking part time writers
> to write on Social issues
> > To: humanhorizons@ yahoogroups. co.uk
> > Date: Thursday, June 19, 2008, 10:14 AM
> >
> > Dear Chittibabu, and respected others,
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for the kind words about this project.
> >
> >
> >
> > I would like to remove the confusion that I am asking
> for any monetary contribution. The request is only in terms
> of original written articles or events at your local place
> or country or the world that impact people, mainly of
> Bahujan Samaj, however its all inclusive. Also, currently
> its only on regular voluntary basis, but will become a
> regular source of income going ahead for regular or good
> contributers. But I know for sure that many people are
> looking to contribute on a voluntary basis also.
> >
> >
> >
> > We have a voluntary group who are also involved in
> local charities that I am working with right now in US and
> this idea came up which got everyone enthusiastic about. It
> will also encourage people to get their fears and shyness
> away and work for their basic rights which get denied so
> often, apart from getting right people to get in touch with
> them.
> >
> > So, if anyone is interested within or outside this
> yahoo group, please get back with your contact details or
> the details of the person you are referring, or send them
> my details to contact me.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am seeking this yahoo group's help in getting
> the messaage to anyone who may be willing to contribute by
> writing just about 100-200 words about what they read daily
> in their newspapers or see on the streets and news about
> things impacting them or their community members directly
> or indirectly. These can also be articles about the
> histories of their families and other members of the Samaj,
> jobs, environmental impact, economic impact, networking
> within the samaj, study, reservations, religion,
> dislocation, riots, and anything to do with people who
> cannot get their voices heard a huge majority of whom
> belong to the bahujan samaj or the tribes (from any
> religion).
> >
> >
> >
> > I have recieved many emails from interested people and
> will be in touch in an orderly and manageable fashion so it
> doesn't wastes anyone's time. Thank all much for
> their interest, and looking forward to working together for
> an equitable society.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Sachin
> >
> > +1 248 250 4174 (Please contact through email first,
> if possible)
> >
> > sachin_chander@ yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 6/19/08, CHITTIBABU PADAVALA
> <afchittibabu@ gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: CHITTIBABU PADAVALA <afchittibabu@
> gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [humanhorizons] Seeking part time writers
> to write on Social issues
> > To: humanhorizons@ yahoogroups. co.uk
> > Date: Thursday, June 19, 2008, 3:08 AM
> >
> > Dear Sachin,
> > This is a good idea in fact a very good idea. Please
> prepare a good announcement that could attract most authors
> and contributions.
> > Chittibabu
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
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> >
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