Thinking about this a bit, I prefer "hairpin turn" over "U-turn". In my mind a "hairpin turn" is talking about a tight turn in a road and by necessity a tight turn for the traffic on the road, the road itself turns back on itself. Where as a "U-turn" talks about a tight turn traffic makes on road, usually to reverse direction on the road or where only the traffic is turning back on itself. Put another way, you can make a "U-turn" on a perfectly strait road, but you can't make a "hairpin turn" on a strait road.
In the Internet we have a different term for a "U-turn", we generally call that a "loopback". Therefore I think "hairpin turn" is the most appropriate in this case, unless we really mean a "loopback". Whichever term we use, it should be clearly defined, it should be obvious at this point there is no clear unambiguous common understanding to rely on here. Thanks. -- =============================================== David Farmer Email: [email protected] Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: +1-612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: +1-612-812-9952 =============================================== > On Nov 1, 2015, at 07:02, George, Wes <[email protected]> wrote: > > I just went hunting for an instance of this in IETF land, and only found > references related to two hosts talking to one another from behind the > same NAT. > So, I went hunting on the internet, and everywhere I saw an explanation, > it was of the variant "going out the same interface it came in on" and > used U-turn synonymously. I was unable to find a reference to a definition > as I outlined below. That's not necessarily an issue but we may need to > explain the term before we use it so that there is no confusion. > > Thanks, > > Wes > > > On 10/31/15, 10:07 PM, "Sriram, Kotikalapudi" > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Wes, >> >> Thanks, Wes, for taking another look. >> And thanks for laying out some interesting (and entertaining) alternative >> names >> that can to used instead of "U-Turn". >> Like we discussed in the hallway this morning, it makes sense to use >> "Hairpin Turn" >> instead of "U-Turn", especially considering "Hairpin Turn" has been used >> in the VPN context. >> >> Sriram >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: George, Wes <[email protected]> >> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 10:01 AM >> To: Sriram, Kotikalapudi >> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] [email protected]; >> [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [GROW] WGLC: draft-ietf-grow-route-leak-problem-definition >> (ends: 8/24/2015 - Aug 24) >> >> On 10/12/15, 11:40 PM, "Sriram, Kotikalapudi" >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Sriram, this is significantly improved. One substantial comment that I >> still have with this version: >> >>>> It is also unclear from the text exactly what you mean by U-Turn >>>> (it's not going back the way it came, so actually hairpin might be a >>>> better term), >>>> so a few words to clarify might be useful. >>> >>> Hairpin seems to have a connotation that the turn is tight/constricted. >>> So now I use the phrase “U-shaped turn” instead of “U-turn”. >> >> WG] This may be nitpicking, but I don't think that adding "shaped" is >> actually much of an improvement. I was thinking of hairpin from the way >> that it is used in VPNs, as in data that enters and leaves the network via >> the same edge device, but typically on a different physical or logical >> interface (instead of entering on one PE and leaving via another), rather >> than the way that it is used on racetracks to describe a near 180 degree >> turn. >> Here are a few ideas I had of other ways to refer to this: >> >> - a "detour leak", in that traffic will be detouring through the leaking >> ASN >> - "ASN-in-the-middle leak" - similar to MiTM such that invoking the >> concept is useful, but it's necessary to disambiguate the two since the >> latter has a specific and well-known meaning >> - "parrotting leak" or "game of telephone leak" in that it is repeating >> something it learned elsewhere, but introducing a mistake, not unlike the >> grade school game of telephone (if you're up for a reference to The >> Simpsons, you could call it a "purple monkey dishwasher leak" but that >> would likely require too much explanation ;-) ) >> - "[accidental | unintentional] transit leak" since the net result of the >> leak is that traffic will transit the leaking AS rather than its normal >> path >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Wes >> >> >> Anything below this line has been added by my company’s mail server, I >> have no control over it. >> ----------- >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable >> proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to >> copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. 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