Hi, 2005/12/15, Gennadiy Donchyts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hi Todd, > > Thanks for a lot of clarifications :). > > On 12/15/05, Todd Berman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Holy Crap. > > > > Ok. > > > > Give me second while I wade in here with the clue-bat. > > > > > > #1) MD is not strictly GPL. > > > > #2) MD is strictly GPL #D code and MIT X11 new code. > > > Is it possible to go from GPL => MIT X11 ... or you consider it as just > completely different?
It is possible for you to turn from MS EUL => PD, provided that you are Microsoft. > > #3) The dock is based on an GPL library, that can be relicensed to the > > MIT X11 for us. (Jeroen, if I am wrong, feel free to beat me). In fact, > > we should hunt this down and get it fixed up if it is possible, see > > point #6. > > > yes, please :), then I could use it too, because I stopped to dig more > inside when I saw GPL there. > > > #4) This 'Novell license' is the MIT X11 license, the only mention of > > Novell is in the copyright, because it is code written by Lluis as a > > Novell employee, so Novell owns the copyright. The code is still MIT > > X11. > > > :)))) Interesting. I didn't know. > > #5) SWF controls are not easy/helpful to port to gtk# in all honesty. In > > fact, they suck to port. Everything is pretty different, and you don't > > want to use System.Drawing on Linux if you can use Cairo directly (imo), > > and even if you did, its still not a good path to rainbows and puppies. > > > I like to use NPlot, for example, it uses Windows.Drawing, do you know any > alternative to it in pure Cairo-based Gtk#? > > > #6) I have no idea what license the data grid is under, but if it is not > > MIT X11, it will have to be removed from MD with a quickness. If Daniel > > can relicense it, great, if he cant/wont, then its toast, we *DO NOT* > > want to push any license but the MIT X11. > > > Can you give a one short definition of why in your oppinion is MIT X11 > better then i.e. LGPL? > If there will be some library/widget which is veeeery good and licensed > under LGPL and > you'd like to use it in MD will not you miss it? The difference is freedom, in the real sense. The free GPL/LGPL licenses allows for _real_freedom_. In other words, as with all freedoms, there are limits. And it is those limits that those licenses have. I am free to take my shotgun and shoting animals on thee wilderness (as long as I am not killing protected specicies noor in reproduction times), but my freedom stops short of allowing me to go for a shooting spree on the downtown mall killing anything that moves, instead. The more libertine MIT X11 license allows for _real_libertinane_ behaviour. It allows for somebody to take code, lock it away in tight locks, modify it at will, and then redistribute it with a license of his own choosing, removing my . With it, I could go the downtown mall for my shooting spree, but I could also go to the wilderness. This license is even worst that the libertine New BSD license, because it would allow somebody to write(?) a proprietary software and then claim that it is endorsed by me. > > #7) Mike Kestner is my personal savior. He wrote, maintains, and rocks > > out (with his cock out) all over gtk#. Well, I don't care how good Mike is, he is a poor excuse for a personal savior. Try Jesus instead. > > #8) Whatever widget library you wonderful people cook up will most > > likely never be put into gtk# itself. This has been the stance in the > > past w/ gtk#, and is a sane one. gtk# is a wrapper for gtk+, not a > > wrapper + extension + other cool widgets. Another library would be a > > great place for other cool widgets. Now. That said, a single widget > > library to rule them all is a bad idea. As a developer, I want > > copy/pastable code. I want to include your source into my app. That > > makes it easy to update, and easy to deploy. It makes me feel warm, and > > well loved. > > > If library is "properly" developed - consider it as a repository of all > useful > widgets/controls not as a one big library with everything messed up. If > designing > and maintaining everything in a good way and keep to some rules - copy paste > will work just fine ;). > ... I would consider it as something like lovely widgets set/repository :)). > .. ok, maybe some additional layer of > independent utilities/helpers. Agreed. > > > #9) Please dont use the Gtk.Controls namespace. Use a new toplevel, like > > the rest of gtk#. > > > Yes, I see that it makes no sence now. And in this case it makes even more > sense to have a > higher level widgets library since Gtk# is supposed to be as close to Gtk+ > as possible? And > our subj. is something .NET-stylish, ... and it should be separate for sure. > > Some guesses/votes: > > 1. Gwl (Gtk# Widgets Library), ... NGwl ;) > 2. Some short name like nice used for other mono libraries. > 3. ?? 4. Controls > > #10) As far as looking for widgets for this library, all of > > MonoDevelop.Components is pretty slick awesomeness. > > > They are nice, but not all is complete as I see. Since there are a lot of > controls > which can be designed and implemented separately - I see a big need of such > library. > and it will bring more people to Gtk# for sure :). > > ... maybe Eclipse / SWT is a nice example of similar approach since ther is > also separate library for UI > and another advantage is that it would be easier to maintain it. > > An ideal situation would be if people involved in MD development also will > take part in design and development of such > a library but at the same time to keep it generic to be used in any other > application at the same time. > (I looked only on TreeView in MD and as I know now it also uses some MD > Services, Commands . > also not completely easy for copy/paste :)). > > > Anyway. This conversation looked like it was going nowhere relatively > > quickly, and with near terminal velocity. > > > .. it just some thoughts/ideas to make life easier and not to google and > look for place where it is > possible to copy/paste each we need some more advanced and nice widget. > > > > Hopefully some of these points > > can clear some things up. And the other ones that are clearly my opinion > > can just be taken as words of advice from someone who has been writing > > gtk# applications for the last 2 years. (Holy crap, Pedro and I did > > start hacking on MD 2 years ago). > > > Thanks - very informative and usefull :). > > --Gena > > > > > --Todd > > And to this, I tip my hat. Jesus bless you all, Víctor Rafael Rivarola -- FANÁTICO "Por cuanto eres tibio, y no frío ni caliente, te vomitaré de mi boca." Apocalipsis 3:16 LOCO "Porque la Palabra de la Cruz es locura para los que se pierden; pero a los que se salvan, esto es, a nosotros, es poder de Dios." 1 Corintios 1:18 _______________________________________________ Gtk-sharp-list maillist - [email protected] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/gtk-sharp-list
