Orlando,
You came in, guns blazing, about the lack of information which does in
fact exist. That kind of behavior tends to rile up everyone else. We all
just need to take a big, deep breath, and approach your problems one at
a time, in a rational manner. Remember, Window-Eyes 7.0 is a beta -- it
is not production quality software. If you have a task that you need to
get done with your 6.1 configuration, then perhaps you shouldn't mess
with it, and instead install the beta on another machine. I assume you
made a backup of your 6.1 sets, so reverting to get your field labels
back shouldn't be an issue. Then when you install Window-Eyes 7.0 Beta 1
on a different machine, you can work out all the nuances so that when
you upgrade your 6.1 machine when Window-Eyes 7 is released, the process
should go smoothly.
Aaron
Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
At 11:56 PM 7/4/2008, Chuck Adkins wrote:
>It's hard to believe this thread. If GW as was stated hasn't made all
this
>scripting information available and has as mentioned been keeping it
secret,
>where did everyone learn the information to create them in the first
place?
I don't understand how my comments can get so easily blown out of
proportion. I never accused GWMicro of not putting up support materials
on Script Central. In fact, I've spent the past day perusing scripting
tutorials thanks to the resources provided on Script Central. I should
however point out that these resources were not always available there
and it was intimidating to sort through unverified internet tutorials
with mere google searches. Many GWMicro staffers urged me to "wait like
everyone else for the beta to be released" when I tried to jump the gun
by learning how to script. I was simply unaware of where exactly the
necessary documentation resided. Not to excuse my carelessness, but I'm
starting grad school in two months, am trying to find a music notation
solution to work with Window-eyes and have to figure out the least
tedious way to relabel all the Sound Forge plugin controls whose labels
disappeared when the beta wreaked havoc with the .we file containing
those field labels. Like many long-time Window-eyes users, scripting
could not have come soon enough. There will always be a differentiation
between blind users of other people's scripts and people who feel
comfortable taking the plunge into scripting. There is also a crucial
distinction to be made between people with previous programming
knowledge and eager users with pressing needs for scripts who can
neither wait for scripts to be written nor pay someone directly to write
them. I fall into this last category. Thus far, reading various
tutorials, I'm having trouble connecting the kinds of sample situations
discussed with the kinds of tasks I'd typically want to script for
Window-eyes. These tutorials are talking about everything from HTML
document text to random number generators. I want to know how to make
Window-eyes speak certain items present on the screen but not available
through standard Windows controls, or produce custom phrases for
Window-eyes to speak when it encounters visual symbols. Thus far, the
tutorials I've been reading have not provided me these kinds of answers.
I'm slowly slogging through the code in the default global scripts, but
am having trouble figuring out what everything means.
>All one need do is look a script central and you can see that very few of
>the scripts have been created by GW. Get it? I say again, very few of the
>scripts have been created by GW Micro.
Those scripters did not learn to script exclusively using online
tutorials like Sesame Script, for example. Many of them have studied
programming and scripting languages in college or have programmed for
years as part of their work. In other words, they have the advantage of
years of previous experience that they could unleash at the drop of a
hat once scripting was introduced into Window-eyes.
>I wish some of the needless GW bashing could be done off list. How anyone
>could accuse GW of being anything but above board with anything
concerning
>7.0 is way beyond me.
I don't understand why you insist on these black and white constructs:
either one supports every single GWMicro policy and decision, or one
gets accused of being a GWMicro basher. In case you haven't noticed,
GWMicro provides blind users a service for which they pay. Many of us
pay for each Window-eyes upgrade out of pocket without any kind of state
or federal support. If I'm shelling out my hard earned money for a
product, you can bet that as an informed consumer, I'm going to raise
concerns when applicable. In the case of the manual, I was reminded of
the help file containing scripting information. I must have overlooked
that in reading too fast through the readme. However, as a Window-eyes
user, I reserve the right to express my opinions about what I see as a
potentially dangerous knowledge gap between those who already know how
to script and those who wish to learn. There are dozens of scripting
related books on Amazon.com. Only the wealthiest people could afford to
buy them all in hopes of finding them useful. At the moment, I cannot
afford to take scripting classes at a university and will probably have
such a heavy course load in the fall that it will be difficult to work
in formal scripting study, which is why I wanted to get a jump on
scripting before the beta came out. If a company ties into com
scripting, I feel that consumers have a right to request as much
beginner support as possible, given the nature of what most of us are
trying to do with Window-eyes. To be clear, no one thus far has written
a script without previous programming background, relying exclusively on
the internet tutorials found through Google searches or on Script
Central. Let's use an analogy here. In my graduate studies, there will
be course work, language and exam requirements for earning a PHD. The
exams will be composed of specific materials I can study in order to
pass. The course work will consist of readings and papers written about
those readings that will eventually add up to a PHD. When my doctoral
work actually begins, I'll have an advisor who will help orient me
toward the best research methods and field work procedures. Why will I
trust that a PHD lies at the end of all these methods and requirements?
Because others have started from the same position as me and earned
their PHD's. It then logically follows that if I follow the trajectory
of scholarship and meet its standards, I'll earn my degree just like
everyone else. Applying the analogy to this situation, imagine if a
university said they'd hire me as a professor if I possessed a doctorate
and I then began scrambling around to figure out how to earn one.
Imagine if that same university said that it doesn't actually produce
PHD scholars from the ground up, but provides links to tutorials in case
people want to earn their degrees at home. Wouldn't I have the right to
question whether those tutorials have actually produced the result I
desire? Wouldn't it be reasonable to question whether one can learn
scripting from the ground up using those tutorials? Why is it GW bashing
to question the efficacy of a proposed system?
Orlando
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