Hi again Steve, sorry if I implied that WE didn't make most of Office accessible; I didn't mean to say that. I do think the very important parts, Word, Outlook, and Excel, are accessible.
I believe powerpoint and access fall into a "second tier" of importance, and are not accessible, and should be as a default "what the customer could expect to work when buying the product" kind of thing. the other office components form a third tier of importance, and it would be nice if visio, project, etc. were accessible, but I see they've got other things to work on first. as for paid scripting, again I didn't express myself well. I'm all for it, especially when it comes to recooping your investments; I only am guessing someone could not make a decent living trying to do it just yet; if we're waiting on someone to script solutions, and then only when they can make a decent living at it, then we'll be waiting a while. but sure, I think you could probably recover your investment in Access should you wish to script it. when I have time I've been working on a project which has cost me a significant amount of outlay for it's components. I haven't decided for certain if I wanted to charge for it and try and recoop those costs or not, so I understand your point, and hope others who are against paying for scripts will rethink this issue. thanks. Chip -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Clower [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 10:35 PM To: gw-info-gwmicro.com Subject: Re: we training on access Chip, All excellent points. I've also looked at Access 2007 and noticed the substancial mess that's presented behind the scenes. Jeff Pledger's comprehensive sets for 2003 are regretably useless in this version of the DBMS. I wasn't referring to arbitrarily charging for scripts as a service, but in many cases, the developer needs to get his/her hands on the software in question. In the case of Access, one must front around $600 for Office 2007 Professional. I must disagree with your implication that most of Office isn't accessible. Of the Window-Eyes install base, I'm willing to wager that of those who use Office-branded programs, only a small subset need Access. The real Microsoft money makers like Outlook, Word, Excel, and PowerPoint are already accessible, and this probably suits the majority. I think scripting is still a potential solution, although it's possible that an Access addin will be needed to leverage the parts of the program that Window-Eyes can't directly reach. GW Micro, your opinions would be greatly valued in this discussion. As entertaining as it is to pass around ideas, we are still only speculating on the best approach at this point. Best regards, Steve On 10/7/2009 9:00 PM, Chip Orange wrote: > Hi Steve, > > I understand your point about GW scripting everything. > > I have 2 points to balance that: > > 1) I think it's reasonable for purchasers to expect window eyes for > work with a minimum of popular software packages; this means it should > work with windows, it's utilities, and at least most of MS Office (for instance). > > 2) I am not sure making access accessible can be done via scripting; > this is why I suggested GW would have to step up to the plate. I've > done just a small amount of work making Word accessible, and I can see > that it could not all be done in scripts; there's too much low-level > work, or, it needs to respond faster than scripts can do. when I > looked at some access dialogs, I saw loads of objects all named the same, and having the same class and type. > I think this would be a very hard scripting project indeed to tackle > something like that. > > so, while I want the core screen reader improved as much as the next > person, when there are important jobs which can't be done via scripts, > I expect GW to tackle them. > > as for paying scripters; I think it's only going to happen when you've > got an institution willing to buy, say, the quickbooks script for one > of their clients who is just getting employed. and this is only going > to happen when institutions get out of the shark cage and start buying > window eyes and it's services. > > individuals who own WE just aren't willing to pay, and really, how > many would even need something like a quickbooks script? there aren't > that many WE owners to begin with. > > you might come up with something; say Skype; where you could get say > $15 from individuals who would like to use it, but I think you'd get > maybe a dozen paying you something like that? I seriously doubt that > there's ever a way to support yourself scripting, for now; not until > things change and WE is on top, and institutions are paying for it and > it's services. but we'll never get there unless some of us are > willing to get the ball rolling by donating most of our time to helping it. > > Chip > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen Clower [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:19 PM > To: gw-info-gwmicro.com > Subject: Re: we training on access > > Chip, > > I know of no for-pay Window-Eyes scripts at this time. However, I > really believe that unless some kind of financial or similar > compensation is offered, we won't see scripts for Access until someone > with the scripting know-how has a need for the program. The > infrastructure exists in both Window-Eyes and Access to get them to > cooperate; somebody just needs to step up to the plate and connect the > pieces. I truly don't think it's GW Micro's responsibility to script > every application in the world. They have given us a powerful object > model to manipulate, thorough documentation, and plenty of example > code to do it ourselves. I would rather see the continued dedication > to the core screen reader than see all of GWM's resources devoted to cranking out scripts. > > Diatribe aside, is there sufficient interest in access to, well, Access? > If so, would anyone be willing to front the costs needed for a > programer to devote his/her time to completing such a project, even > though the resulting script could be made freely available to others? > I recall asking the same question when Quickbooks' accessibility was > raised over the summer, and nobody responded. Remember, folks, that scripters have to eat, too. > > Regards, > Steve > > > On 10/7/2009 7:51 PM, Chip Orange wrote: > >> Hi Ray, >> >> I too want to add my voice to those requesting that GW add MS Access >> support to WE, and soon! >> >> Ray, just thinking over your idea about a scripting service; does >> anyone know of a script for window eyes which costs money? I'm just >> wondering if the window eyes market will support such a concept, >> given how relatively easy scripting is, and given that often it's not >> the state blind services agency that purchases window eyes for us >> (and often I think that's who is supporting the jaws commercial >> scripting industry, because they purchase both jaws, and the scripts >> needed, to get >> > someone productively employed). > >> I don't know about other areas of the country, but in Florida my >> impression is that our state agency, who pays non-profit agencies in >> this state to teach computer skills, still only purchases, and only >> pays for training in, the shark! >> >> I haven't investigated scripting access in a serious way, but I'd >> guess it's going to need more than scripting support from the quick >> look I >> > took. > >> Chip >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ray [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 5:51 AM >> To: '[email protected]' >> Subject: Re: we training on access >> >> Just want to add my plea again for propper support of the Access >> database which is used quite a lot by small organisations I'm working >> > with. > >> I hope this could be done via scripting. If it can be I wonder why >> it hasn't been. It could be that scripting is going to have to be >> paid for in some instances if we're to see progress on this front >> regarding MS >> > Access. > >> I'm beginning to wonder if paid for or subscription to a scripting >> service might be what's required to kick start propper access to >> audio programs as well. >> Ray. >> >> >> >> >> John W. Carty wrote: >> Access isn't supported using WE. To my knowledge, there isn't a >> popular database application that is supported. This is a real short >> coming for many blind users working in a variety of careers. >> >> >> >> >> >> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original >> sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your >> message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your >> message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. >> >> All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, >> and can be searched through and sorted using the search form at the >> bottom of the page. >> >> If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to >> [email protected] and include leave gw-info in the body of the message. >> >> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original >> sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your >> message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your >> message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. >> >> All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, >> and can be searched through and sorted using the search form at the >> bottom >> > of the page. > >> If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to >> [email protected] and include leave gw-info in the body of the >> message. >> >> > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original > sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your > message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your > message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > > All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, > and can be searched through and sorted using the search form at the > bottom of the page. > > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to > [email protected] and include leave gw-info in the body of the message. > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and can be searched through and sorted using the search form at the bottom of the page. If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to [email protected] and include leave gw-info in the body of the message. If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and can be searched through and sorted using the search form at the bottom of the page. If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to [email protected] and include leave gw-info in the body of the message.
