> Guys, I tried to keep the below as polite and forthright as possible, but it > degenerates in places and reading and rereading, I don't really see the > benefit of removing some of the language that might be considered offensive > or abridging my comments. I really feel this needs to be said, not for the > purpose of offending, but for the purpose of taking what I feel is the right > stance. > > Hi Mark, this is bad... Very very bad. There are glaring inaccuracies in > this release. I sincerely hope you did not send it to any public forums > other than gw micro customer base. I've quoted what I want to draw your > attention to in my comments, but left the entire article below for people to > read in it's entirety. > > Article 6: You wrote, > "what incentive would Apple have to make their screen reader work with > Microsoft Office and what incentive would Microsoft have to make their screen > reader work with iTunes?" > This Demonstrates a lack of understanding on how the other side works. > Windows is not mac OS, and mac OS is not windows. On the mac side, you have > a screen reader, but you also have a fully accessible operating system. The > libraries and API's used to build programs generate accessible programs, > which are then read and interpreted by an accessible operating system, which > then sends information to voiceover... or a talk box... or a TTY machine... > Or whatever. For now, Microsoft has chosen to make office for mac > inaccessible at great pains to themselves. Apple and adobe have a love hate > relationship, and so adobe products on the mac are hit and miss for > accessibility users and non alike. As the system develops though, It will > eventually become impossible to build a program on the mac platform that is > inaccessible to apples universal access design. As such, all software > written for macs will eventually be accessible, whether you are blind, deaf, > dyslexic, paraplegic, or have any other disability. We may have to chase > every version of ITunes on the windows side, but eventually office for mac > will be accessible whether ms likes it or not, unless they simply choose to > scrap office for mac development before things get to that stage. We still > have a ways to go. >> > Article Seven: you wrote, > "In addition, GW Micro is the only screen reader manufacturer to host and > moderate an email discussion list. This list is a great resource that allows > our customers to discuss technical issues and questions with GW Micro’s > technical support team as well others in the Window-Eyes community." > This is incorrect. NVDA developers run their own user support group exactly > like GW Micro's. The lead developer of the Espeak software was also a > regular contributor when I was there, and There should be a brlty developer > on there by now. Apples accessibility team also monitors the macvisionaries > user group. While they don't usually participate, hundreds of feature > requests that get bandied about the group are implemented with every new > release. I know for a fact that they are watching that group because they > have posted publicly there on occasion, and the fact that they are usually > quiet doesn't mean they are ignoring their customer base. I believe duxbury > systems moderates it's own groups, and I'm sure there are others. > > Article 9: This made me furious when I read it because it demonstrates an > appalling amount of sheer ignorance. The statements are categorically false, > and should be retracted immediately before they generate well deserved ill > feelings against the company you represent. I'd like to say, I have been an > apple user for 2 and a half years. before that I was a very happy > window-eyes user, and though I seldom actually use the product these days, I > still keep up my sma, and my switch to apple was entirely driven by > dissatisfaction with windows, and in no way reflects any dissatisfaction with > window-eyes or GWMicro. I still continue to enjoy supporting and training on > window-eyes and I'm confident recommending it to clients. I'm still pretty > mad though. You wrote: >> "GW Micro believes that having a free screen reader as part of the operating >> system does a disservice to Blind computer users." >> > That's an extremely shaky position to be in, and I'll topple you in a second. > For now, I want to say that if it wasn't for governemnt funding, I wouldn't > have window-eyes. I bought it well before the days of the payment plan. > Last Christmas, I bought a brand new operating system from apple including a > fully functional screen reader for $35 Canadian. A new window-eyes upgrade > and a copy of win7 would have cost me just over $300 Canadian, $195 for the > upgrade from WE6 to 7, and $120 for a copy of win7 home premium. not that I > think the window-eyes upgrade was not good value for money, but if one > doesn't have $300 to spend, then they just don't have. it. If Ontario's > rather dubious funding system were to vanish tomorrow, the number of blind > people using mac here would go up 500 times in the next year. >> "The relatively small size of the screen reader market does not allow >> Microsoft or Apple to invest the amount of resources that accessibility >> truly deserves." >> > This is so non-visionary, it would be hilarious if it wasn't so inflammatory > . Accessibility is not about blind people. We do this all the damn time and > it's the most selfish stupid thing I've ever heard. I'm saddened to hear it > spewing out of my screen reader from a company I respect. OK, you serve > blind people, and blind people are a small market, especially blind people > who work or go to school or whatever. I mean, most people who are blind have > macular degeneration which sets in between the ages of 60 and 70. They still > want to use computers,, but their needs are not extravagant. In a world > where 1 per sent of the total population is blind, I'm the freak of nature > who was just born with RP. The odds against are astronomically high. So, > whenever this subject comes up, it always saddens me to hear people natter > about how small the blind community is and all the trials and tribulations > involved in providing accessibility. Hello world, is anybody listening? I'm > going to say something really profound here. You won't want to miss this. > The world, does not, revolve, around, blind people. There are, other people, > who need, accessibility, besides, you john blind person. There are deaf > people out there. Milionds of normal looking people on the street that you > walk by every day have learning disabilities. There are people with > musculature and fine motor problems., people who don't have all of their > limbs, or maybe they only have two fingers on one hand. The number of > disabilities that inhibit access and the number of potential users that > benefit from a universally accessible design is limitless. It's not about > building a screen reader so that apple can sell more computers to blind > people, although they are doing a phenomenal job of that. It's about > building a computer that can be used by anyone, regardless of their > disability. When you look at it that way, the economics make more sense. GW > micro builds stuff for blind people, and that's great. They do a good job of > building stuff for blind people. But apple is building stuff for everyone, > regardless of disability, and they are doing a good job at it. > >> "Without a major change in Microsoft or Apple’s infrastructure, they would >> be ill-prepared to develop a strong and evolving screen reader as well as >> provide the type of support that is often required by screen reader users." >> > Wrong again. Or at least, if a change was needed, it happened in apple, and > the signs started showing 5 or 6 years ago. That means the actual change you > speak of probably took place many years before that. Window-eyes is a very > good product. Certainly better than it's closest windows counterpart, but my > friend, voiceover is getting to be at least as good as window-eyes, and if > the position of GWMicro is truly that apple will never build a full featured > competitive screen reader then you had better get your head out of your > collective asses or the wave is going to sweep this company away. Voiceover > offers access to the web which is at least as robust as window-eyes or it's > competitor except for adobe flash which is mostly adobe's fault. Voiceover > offers read-write braille support via usb and bluetooth for at least 25 > braille displays. Voiceover has a non-proprietary full featured scripting > model using apple script which is a part of mac OS. Voiceover even has truly > useful features that window-eyes does not yet have. For example, window-eyes > does not provide full access or as far as I know, any access at all to the > multi-touch trackpad on windows PC's. You can not use jesters in window-eyes > to control your pc, a feature which many blind mac users have come to rely on > once past the learning curve. > As far as the support goes, I can take my computer into any apple store or > apple reseller and they will sit down in front of me and fix my problem. If > they don't know what the solution is, they will look it up. There are a lot > of people supporting apple. Apple hires individuals based on a huge array of > factors, and they generally manage to finddgood people. It is possible to > have a bad tech support experience with apple, but it's also possible to have > the same with GW, or in deed any company. Support is a hard job. When > things aren't going your way it can be extremely stressful for both the > support person and the one being supported. It's important to be careful > about how you criticize some one else's support or decry your own. Although > I really think GW has very good support overall, I would hesitate to pick out > any one company and say, "that one has the best support". Still, I get face > to face, one on one attention for my problems and questions from apple. I > can have training from the apple store if I want, and for less than what GW > would charge. I can't even get GW's training courses here, much as I'd love > to have them. In order to bring the courses here, I have to find 5 to 10 > people who want the course and have the money to pay for it, find a venue to > host it, and so on. I've read the review of window-eyes training courses. > It made me drool, but I don't think it's accurate at all to say that a > mainstream provider can't give blind customers the attention they need. >> "Without competition from screen reader manufacturers like GW Micro there >> will be no incentive for Apple or Microsoft to include a feature-rich and >> powerful screen reader into their operating system." >> > Well I think we've put pay to the fully functioning nonsense. Competition > isn't bad. I'm for sure grateful I had a choice between jaws and window-eyes > back in the day. It's saved me a lot of frustration. I'm for sure grateful > I had a choice between mac and windows, cause even though I work a job, I'm > not exactly the most wealthy guy in the world, and I have to watch it. I'm > glad the vinux project is doing so well, and I love looking forward to the > new release of NVDA every year. It would be really tough for any one to come > in and compete with apple though. How do you beat some one in the market > when they offer a universally accessible operating system? I guess there is > vinux, but it's a tough sell. Now you are talking around in circles, because > first you say that there's no way a mainstream company can build and support > a full functioning screen reader, and Then you say that competition from > companies like GW Micro is driving microsoft and apple accessibility.. This > is ridiculous. You can not have it both ways. In fact, my info is that full > accessibility was tried by MS back around the turn of the century, and it got > squashed by the NFB, who incidentally, did a huge hack job on Voiceover when > Leopard came out and was forced to print retractions, after users > demonstrated numerous statements made by the organization to be completely > false. Wherefore, no one was interested in mac OS 10 until apple made it > interesting, and now it's competitive after many years of work and revision. > Where were GWMicro and Freedom Scientific back in OS10.1? Serving the 90% > windows community and being paid rather well for doing so, while apple took > the initiative and built something. So both of these statements trip over > eachother and fall flat on their faces. >> >> GWMicro has so many good things to offer blind users, and I'm sorry that no >> one else showed up for the show down; However, If you publish something like >> this to a wider community, then what you have to offer is going to get lost >> amid all the inaccurate, contradictory and inflammatory statements about >> other companies and the blind community. This is not the way, and I very >> much hope you will reconsider. >> >> > Regards, > > Erik Burggraaf > Check out my first ever podcast tutorial, Learn braille using the braille box. > Visit http://www.erik-burggraaf.com and click podcasts to read more and > subscribe. > > On 2010-09-01, at 2:28 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >> >> Earlier this summer, the Information Access Committee invited GW Micro, >> Freedom Scientific, Serotek, NVDA and Apple to participate in the Future of >> Screen Readers discussion panel at the 2010 ACB convention in Phoenix >> Arizona. When the time came for the discussion panel, GW Micro was the only >> screen reader manufacturer that showed up to participate. In fairness, >> Serotek and NVDA attempted to participate via Skype but were unable to do so >> because of Internet connectivity issues in the hotel conference area. As >> for the others, Freedom Scientific declined to participate and Apple did not >> even acknoweldge the invitation sent by the Information Access Committee. >> GW Micro would like to take this opportunity to publicly respond to the 10 >> questions asked of each participant and you can find the ten discussion >> panel questions along with our responses below: >>
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