well, that i have also happen also if you shift tab back and theen tab back into the desktop will also make window eyes read theicons on the desktop windows 7 64 bit ----- Original Message ----- From: josh n rivera To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 12:43 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: WE and NVDA
Hey folks, This happens to me also, but I'm using Win-7, and I seem to remember that Steve what's his name, said that that problem was supposed to have been fixed in Win-8. To fix it in my win-7 system, closing down Win-eyes, and re-opening it, will usually make it read the desktop alright again. On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 01:53:34 +0200 David <[email protected]> writes: Aaron, I have made a discovery, that won't really let your UEFI 'excuse' stand. As I mentioned in my original message, one of the issues I have, is that sometimes when bringing up the desktop, all I can hear from WE is "list, nothing selected", or whatever that message is. No matter what I move around the desktop screen, this is all I hear. Allright, you tell this to be an UEFI issue, as well as the other issues I pointed out in my original message? Then please come with me for a test run. First of all, let's perform a cold boot from a totally shut down system. Window/eyes loads, along with Windows8. When fully loaded, we hit Win-D, and land on the desktop. What happens? The screen reader reads the selected item, and as we move up and down the different icons, we can hear all the information as expected. Now, try to go to the WE Control Panel, and hit Alt-F4, and confirm the closing of the screen reader. Give the system five seconds to settle, and then hit Alt-Ctrl-W, to restart Window-Eyes. Will you please, come with me back to the desktop? Now try to move your cursor up and down the desktop list, and tell me your results. On my computer, all I get is this "list, no selected item" stuff. And this test, I have been performing several times now, to confirm the behavior. I even have confirmed that logging off an dback on my user profile, will not fix the problem. Yet, if I do a normal "warm boot" or restart, I again can read the contents of the desktop. In all those cases, NVDA reads the desktop troublefree. OK, Aaron, you told this along with the rest of my issues, to be due to UEFI. Further you tell that UEFI loads prior to the OS, at least from what I get from your explanation. If the desktop issue had to do with UEFI, then it would be consistent, even when I reboot my machine, right? Apparently, Window-Eyes does have a problem, in recognizing the desktop in certain cases. My above outlined test, would at least be one such case. Hope you can shed more light on why this is, and how UEFI will affect things when WE is reloaded, but not when it is boot-loaded. Thanks again, On 6/18/2013 2:29 PM, Aaron Smith wrote: Window-Eyes uses a registry setting called AppInit_DLLs so that our hooks get loaded into each process that runs on your system (hooking processes allows us to get information that ends up getting spoken to you). Unfortunately, this registry setting can also be used by malware and other unfriendlies to inject bad stuff into each process. On UEFI Secure Boot enable systems, appinit based DLL injections are disabled, meaning that Window-Eyes can't get its hooks into some processes, which is why you're hearing some things work and some things not. Microsoft has stated, in the Certification Requirements for Windows Desktop apps, that: "1.3 Your app must not load arbitrary DLLs to intercept Win32 API calls using HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows AppInit_dlls." So clearly they are dropping support for this feature that used to work just fine for us. We will be modifying Window-Eyes in the future so that this registry feature is no longer used, but, until then, disabling UEFI is the only solution. Note that this problem is specific to 64-bit hosts. You can easily verify the Secure Boot State on your customer machine using msinfo32. Aaron -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: WE and NVDA Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 08:26:33 -1000 From: manny <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Organization: none To: Stephen Clower <[email protected]>, gwmicro list <[email protected]> Hi Steve, I too have encountered all of the abnormalities which Dave mentioned in his original post. Is this happening because Windows 8 is blocking those components of WE8 that it considers malware? I have run antivirus scan on my computer, and rootkits from gwmicro are flagged as malware, which I just ignore. What is puzzling is that sometimes WE8 works fine and sometimes not. Furthermore, This computer was upgraded to windows 8 from windows 7 in dual boot mode, and it is my understanding that this can only be done with uefi turned off. I will need to get help to determine if my uefi is on or off. If it turns out that my uefi is off, my question would be -- why am I having these same problems. Many thanks for any thoughts on this issue, Manny If this helps, you can thank me by checking out my stand-up comedy performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75fbevlz10g computer specifications: Window Eyes 8.2, Dell xps420 with 8 gb RAM, Intel q6600 quad core On 6/17/2013 2:53 AM, Stephen Clower wrote: > Butch, > > Unfortunately not. This is entirely dependent on your computer BIOS > and will likely require sighted assistance to disable. > > Steve > > > > On 6/17/2013 8:54 AM, Butch K wrote: >> Steve, I too have had problems like David's in windows 8. Can you >> tell me how to disable this u e f i security boot, so wineyes will >> work properly? >> >> Butch >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> >> On 6/17/2013 at 8:05 AM Stephen Clower wrote: >> >>> David, >>> >>> We recently discovered an issue where the new UEFI secure boot system >>> found in some Windows 8 machine could inadvertently cause certain parts >>> of Window-Eyes not to load. If you disable secure boot, Window-Eyes >>> should behave normally again. >>> >>> We are currently investigating a more suitable work-around on our end >>> that won't require EUFI be disabled. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Steve >>> >>> On 6/17/2013 6:57 AM, David wrote: >>>> In late May, GW released the locale version of WE8.2, in my region. >>>> Great news, since I finally could start to benefit from the upgrades >>>> that came in the 8-series of the screen reader. And, it also meant, >>>> that I now could bring out my new machine - which unfortunately has >>>> Windows8 installed. Yet, I have to say, the joy was somehow mixed, and >>>> has been so for the last few weeks. I now hope that someone can tell >>>> me what I am to change for settings. >>>> First thing I do notice, is that the set files do not always load >>>> automatically. For instance, it took a while, before I realized that >>>> the newly - all fresh - installation of WE8.2, did not load the >>>> Firefox set file automatically, when I opened Firefox. I then went >>>> through the process of manually loading and associating the set file >>>> with Firefox. Seems to work OK now, but still wonder why this did not >>>> happen automatically in a brand new installation. >>>> Yesterday, I decided to register my new PC, with HP. This is a fairly >>>> easy process, since the HP machine comes with a pre-installed piece of >>>> software. Running this software, up comes two consequtive screens, >>>> holding edit boxes that you need to fill in. The boxes are quite a >>>> standard form version, asking your first- and lastname, along with >>>> your contact info. But with WE loaded, there was simply NO chance - >>>> whatsoever. The first field on the screen asked my firstname, but >>>> landing my cursor on it, WE would read to me the "Submit"-label, which >>>> is the last bottom line button of the screen. Tabbing once, landing on >>>> the field for my lastname, WE reported that this field was for my >>>> Email, which actually was the third field of the screen.. If I tabbed >>>> and shift-tabbed back and forth on the screen, WE would read the >>>> labels of fields that would be two or three fields away from the >>>> actual one I was focusing. This even if I tabbed very slowly through >>>> the form. OK, I thought, Yet another one of those totally inaccessible >>>> screens we so often are presented with. But I have come to learn, not >>>> to stop there. So I loaded NVDA. Guess you all have grasped the end of >>>> the story already. Sure thing, NVDA did read the fields of that form - >>>> totally correctly - and exactly as you would have expected. It was the >>>> matter of less than thirty seconds to fill in the form and have it >>>> submitted, with NVDA loaded. I even tested things, running both NVDA >>>> and WE simultaneously, to see the difference in behavior. NVDA kept >>>> steadily reading the field-tags correctly, While WE just as stubbornly >>>> kept reading the tags arbitrarily. >>>> If I give my computer a cold-start, I can hit the Win-D and get to the >>>> desktop. WE will now read the different items of my desktop, as I move >>>> up and down. If I leave the desktop - for instance by loading Firefox >>>> from the desktop - and then return by hitting Win-D, all I hear from >>>> WE is "No Item Selected, List". Loading NVDA, I can leave and return >>>> to the desktop as much as I like, and I will hear the items on the >>>> desktop read out to me. Why not with WE? Why all this stuff about "no >>>> item selected", which isn't even true, since the current item is being >>>> focused and selected. I know it is, because NVDA reports it to be, and >>>> I can hit Enter, and the attached software starts. This doesn't seem >>>> much reliable to me, for the part of Window-Eyes. >>>> Sometimes, when starting a software, you get up the safety screen >>>> asking if you will permit this software to make changes on your >>>> computer. When this screen comes up, NVDA will read it, but WE does go >>>> quietly dead. The Eloquence of WE, will not start to speak again, >>>> until you have made your choice in this safety screen. Not even if you >>>> Alt-Tab to another screen or software. As I said, NVDA reads the >>>> safety screen just fine. >>>> Other times, some background software - like a security scan - will >>>> pop-up a message on the screen. If this message in any way conflicts >>>> WE, things like the mouse-keys of WE, stop to work. They keep dinging >>>> at you. Alt-Tabbing through the list of software, does give you no >>>> clue. And, window-eyes did not inform you that a background message >>>> had popped up on the screen. In many cases, I have noticed that NVDA >>>> does work far more smoothly with these cases. >>>> More and more, I find myself having to load NVDA several times aday, >>>> just to perform even plain tasks, like choosing a software from off >>>> the desktop. After having paid the upgrade price for Window-Eyes 8.2, >>>> I really don't feel this should have been necessary. WE is being >>>> claimed to be a stabil and solid screen reader, and it does cost >>>> several hundred dollars. Then I also feel we are in our rights, to >>>> expect it to do its job. But when you cannot even read the info on the >>>> desktop, or have speech through the vital parts of the security >>>> screens, I really question the reliability of the screen reader. My >>>> hope now, is that someone out there has a workaround for these issues. >>>> Maybe some setting I have to change, so as to have things working >>>> properly. Further, I hope that such workarounds will be included in >>>> upcoming shippings of the screen reader. As it stands today, it >>>> definitely was no "right-out-of-the-box" experience to install and run >>>> WE. >>>> Finally, GW, why do you automatically load all those apps that ship >>>> with the screen reader. OK, most of them, I can see will be helpful. >>>> But the ones that are shipping, and which are supposed to make the >>>> jump from things like Jaws easier. For most of us, this kind of apps >>>> are only in our way, since they do change certain keystrokes. Why not >>>> have a checkbox in the installation process, that would tell if I am >>>> migrating from Jaws. If I check this box, which by standard could be >>>> unchecked, these extra apps wil be installed. Same thing goes with the >>>> quickstart app, which I think could do its job in setting things up, >>>> and then be deactivated. Just some ideas... >>> -- >>> Stephen Clower >>> Product support specialist & App Development >>> GW Micro, Inc. * 725 Airport North Office Park, Fort Wayne, IN 46825 >>> 260-489-3671 * gwmicro.com >>> >>> >>> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original >>> sender >>> only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your >>> message is >>> related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to >>> [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. >>> >>> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You >>> can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. >> >> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original >> sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your >> message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your >> message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. >> >> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You >> can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. > -- Aaron Smith Web Development * App Development * Product Support Specialist GW Micro, Inc. * 725 Airport North Office Park, Fort Wayne, IN 46825 260-489-3671 * gwmicro.com To insure that you receive proper support, please include all past correspondence (where applicable), and any relevant information pertinent to your situation when submitting a problem report to the GW Micro Technical Support Team. ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Virgin Mobile® Shop Virgin Mobile's No Contract Service Plans & Sleek Devices Now! virginmobileusa.com If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
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