Hello list,
I would like to apologize to the list and GW Micro staff for being so rude
on the list. I'm working on a project and I struggle to get ideas. When
Microsoft Security Esentials started scanning my PC, my PC went slower for
some reason. However, these factors didn't give me the right to go on like
that.
But I do consider my actions as childish and not well thought through.
Kind regards
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandra Fouts [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 17 June 2013 08:44 PM
To: 'Tom Kingston'; Gwmicro gw-info mail list
Subject: RE: WE and NVDA
And gw is great twith support. Question would be, why is NVDA free? Do
they give you the tech support thatgw does? Can you call them on the phone
like you can a gw? Most of the time, you get what you pay for. Don't
forget that.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Kingston [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 1:35 PM
To: Gwmicro gw-info mail list
Subject: Re: WE and NVDA
I do think it is very disrespectful when posting pointless stabs at GW (or
any other company) on their public support list.
If folks want to complain, make feature requests, ask questions, etc.
that's fine. But reveling in a stick it to 'em attitude is childish at
best..
Tom
On 6/17/2013 1:56 PM, Sandra Fouts wrote:
I don't think it's disrespect. I'm sure gw works real hard in what they
do. Some people don't want to put out more money when there is free
product that does what need.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Kingston [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 12:50 PM
To: Gwmicro gw-info mail list
Subject: Re: WE and NVDA
Congratulations. I'm glad you're proud of your complete disrespect for the
hard work and support of the GW-Micro staff. You should be on the other end
of the stick to get a taste of the real world.
Tom
On 6/17/2013 1:31 PM, Morné van der Merwe wrote:
Chris, well said. This is also my last sma.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Beasley [
mailto:[email protected]
]
Sent: 17 June 2013 07:07 PM
To: Chris H;
[email protected]
; Kevin Barry
Subject: Re: WE and NVDA
I second what Chris said.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Barry"
<[email protected]>
To: "Chris H"
<[email protected]>
;
<[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: WE and NVDA
If this is your opinion please have the minimum level of class necessary
to be considered civilized and keep it off the GW list.
At 12:33 PM 6/17/2013, Chris H wrote:
Well, trying not to offend Gw Micro, I would say do not bother. Nvda has
come on leaps and bounds since its inception, and many, many users are using
it as their prefered screen reader, even though they have the commercial
ones installed. This is actually my set up. Although I have an Sma for
Window-Eyes, I do not think I will be renewing it at the appropriate time.
Chris
On 17/06/2013 14:32, Morné van der Merwe wrote:
Well, I'm seriously wondering if I must pay for an upgrade of WE next
year. If NVDA makes such progress.
*From:*David [
mailto:[email protected]
]
*Sent:* 17 June 2013 12:57 PM
*To:* WE English mailing list
*Subject:* WE and NVDA
In late May, GW released the locale version of WE8.2, in my region.
Great news, since I finally could start to benefit from the upgrades that
came in the 8-series of the screen reader. And, it also meant, that I now
could bring out my new machine - which unfortunately has Windows8
installed.. Yet, I have to say, the joy was somehow mixed, and has been so
for the last few weeks. I now hope that someone can tell me what I am to
change for settings.
First thing I do notice, is that the set files do not always load
automatically. For instance, it took a while, before I realized that the
newly - all fresh - installation of WE8.2, did not load the Firefox set file
automatically, when I opened Firefox. I then went through the process of
manually loading and associating the set file with Firefox.
Seems to work OK now, but still wonder why this did not happen
automatically in a brand new installation.
Yesterday, I decided to register my new PC, with HP. This is a fairly
easy process, since the HP machine comes with a pre-installed piece of
software. Running this software, up comes two consequtive screens,
holding edit boxes that you need to fill in. The boxes are quite a
standard form version, asking your first- and lastname, along with
your contact info. But with WE loaded, there was simply NO chance -
whatsoever. The first field on the screen asked my firstname, but
landing my cursor on it, WE would read to me the "Submit"-label, which
is the last bottom line button of the screen. Tabbing once, landing on
the field for my lastname, WE reported that this field was for my
Email, which actually was the third field of the screen. If I tabbed
and shift-tabbed back and forth on the screen, WE would read the
labels of fields that would be two or three fields away from the
actual one I was focusing. This even if I tabbed very slowly through
the form. OK, I thought, Yet another
one of
those totally inaccessible screens we so often are presented with. But I
have come to learn, not to stop there.
So I loaded NVDA. Guess you all have grasped the end of the story
already.. Sure thing, NVDA did read the fields of that form - totally
correctly - and exactly as you would have expected. It was the matter of
less than thirty seconds to fill in the form and have it submitted, with
NVDA loaded. I even tested things, running both NVDA and WE simultaneously,
to see the difference in behavior. NVDA kept steadily reading the field-tags
correctly, While WE just as stubbornly kept reading the tags arbitrarily.
If I give my computer a cold-start, I can hit the Win-D and get to the
desktop. WE will now read the different items of my desktop, as I move up
and down. If I leave the desktop - for instance by loading Firefox >from
the desktop - and then return by hitting Win-D, all I hear from WE is "No
Item Selected, List". Loading NVDA, I can leave and return to the desktop as
much as I like, and I will hear the items on the desktop read out to me. Why
not with WE? Why all this stuff about "no item selected", which isn't even
true, since the current item is being focused and selected. I know it is,
because NVDA reports it to be, and I can hit Enter, and the attached
software starts. This doesn't seem much reliable to me, for the part of
Window-Eyes..
Sometimes, when starting a software, you get up the safety screen asking
if you will permit this software to make changes on your computer. When this
screen comes up, NVDA will read it, but WE does go quietly dead.
The Eloquence of WE, will not start to speak again, until you have made
your choice in this safety screen. Not even if you Alt-Tab to another screen
or software. As I said, NVDA reads the safety screen just fine.
Other times, some background software - like a security scan - will pop-up
a message on the screen. If this message in any way conflicts WE, things
like the mouse-keys of WE, stop to work. They keep dinging at you.
Alt-Tabbing through the list of software, does give you no clue.
And, window-eyes did not inform you that a background message had popped
up on the screen. In many cases, I have noticed that NVDA does work far more
smoothly with these cases.
More and more, I find myself having to load NVDA several times aday, just
to perform even plain tasks, like choosing a software from off the desktop..
After having paid the upgrade price for Window-Eyes 8.2, I really don't feel
this should have been necessary. WE is being claimed to be a stabil and
solid screen reader, and it does cost several hundred dollars. Then I also
feel we are in our rights, to expect it to do its job. But when you cannot
even read the info on the desktop, or have speech through the vital parts of
the security screens, I really question the reliability of the screen
reader. My hope now, is that someone out there has a workaround for these
issues. Maybe some setting I have to change, so as to have things working
properly. Further, I hope that such workarounds will be included in upcoming
shippings of the screen reader. As it stands today, it definitely was no
"right-out-of-the-box" experience to install and run WE.
Finally, GW, why do you automatically load all those apps that ship with
the screen reader. OK, most of them, I can see will be helpful. But the ones
that are shipping, and which are supposed to make the jump from things like
Jaws easier. For most of us, this kind of apps are only in our way, since
they do change certain keystrokes. Why not have a checkbox in the
installation process, that would tell if I am migrating >from Jaws. If I
check this box, which by standard could be unchecked, these extra apps wil
be installed. Same thing goes with the quickstart app, which I think could
do its job in setting things up, and then be deactivated. Just some ideas...
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