Actually that idea of allowing a user to view the site in their own language is
a good one. It eliminates the need for maintaining several sites so versioning
and maintenance would not be a problem. I agree however that the link should be
at the very top of the site so it would be the first thing read when the page
was opened by any user.
It's text should also be generated in whatever language the page was being
opened in. That should be doable enough with the localization features of most
Website Development systems.
I am not sure but you might even be able to generate the entire page in the
target language when opened in diferent countries.
Anyway, that is how I would do it if I were King of the World.
Rick USA
om: David
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: App Central Localization (was Re: Package manager update
question)
OK, Aaron!
Maybe you are not totally missing. Maybe we wer missing a bit. But still!
Allright, I just had a look at App Central. Poof! Sorry, but, poof! Yes, you
have the Change Language link. But where is it located? At top of the page,
there is a link that lets the user Skip To The Main Content. Then comes a few
introductory links. Are any of these the one we are looking for? Sorry, no!
Skipping to the main contents, leads us to a list of the newest apps, the
highest rated, or most recently updated apps. Will the link we are searching be
found in this section? My appologize, but, NO!
Then comes the bottom section, where you have all your contact and
advertising stuff. A section, that most users do not bother to read. And, is
the link in here? WOW; Yes! Deeply burried in the section where the user is not
likely to even look. Is that an example of good wweb design? Sorry, to ask, but
a link that would prove beneficial for several users, and would have a major
impact on the web page, shouldn't that be expected at a much higher level? How
many users - if you were to do a research among the thousands - do you expect
ever would be aware that such a link did exist? None of the people I have
talked to, at least. Either get that link in the top section; like most other
web designers that offer multilingual sites. Or, at least have it at the
beginning of the Main section, that you quickly can skip to. Try to think. The
user opens App Central. He is given the information, that there is so many
headers, so many links. Then, if his settings are as standard, WE starts to
read the first 24 lines. At the very top, it says there is a link to skip to
the main contents of the site. Now, what is the user likely to do? At least, I
would either hit that skip link, or press the H key, so as to jump right down
to the headers of the page. That is the way I do on a ton of other pages, and
that is what I guess most people do. Now, when I get to the main section of App
Central, I can make my searches. Likely, noone ever will be reading the whole
page. And even if they did, they might likely stop when they get to the footer
section. Is it any wonder, that the discussion ever came up? Noone has ever
told, such a Change Language link is around. So not even if the user wanted to,
he would know to search for it.
Secondly. I tried it out. Well, I don't speak Polish or Turkish, so forget
about them. But I do know how to read a bit of German. So I pressed the Change
Language link, and chose German. Hmm! Hmmm! -
Is that what you call a German site? Allright the middle section of the site
was in German. But, the introductory section and the footer, was in English.
Quite a stew to listen through, with the speech synth. Might be fancy enough
for two eyes, but definately not what is good practice with assistive
technology. If I go to places like Google, and ask the webpage to change to
Danish, it does not present me with a stew of English, Danish, and whatever. It
changes the WHOLE page, into the target language.
Well, Aaron, and the rest of you. Let me take you out of that
English-speaking world, and show you what real life is like - for a load of
people, who just happened to be born on the other side of the street.
Imagine, you were sitting in Germany. Your English skills are rather
limitted. Still, you are all the time hearing about the many great features of
apps. So, one day, you decide to take the plunge. You enter the web address in
your browser. Bang! There you are placed, on top of a webpage, which runs over
many screens. It is all in the language, of which you are not very good at -
English. In here, you are supposed to look for a Change Language link. You
don't know it exists, and you won't find it until you have been scrolling
through more or less the whole webpage; listening to all that BlahBlah-stuff,
that you hardly understand, due to it being in a foreign language. Who knows,
how many would go through all that hazzle. But, you are of the persistent sort,
and you finally hit the link. With a breathe of relief, you press the Enter
key; hoping that your trials are passed. And? What are you presented with? A
new page, which from the beginning point, is babling away on its English. You
now, are supposed to know, that you should just scroll down the page, because
at some funny point, you would eventually be hitting something that you finally
do understand.
Aaron, WHAT are you missing? Did you want me to send you a handful links for
pages that are all in Norwegian, Danish or Swedish; but who might be offering
things you might want to get your hands on. Wonder how long you would have been
enjoying playing around on such pages. Well, unless you took on yourself, to
really study the new language. After all, how many of the users on this list,
would visit - and stay tuned with - a webpage in Chinese, that would happen to
have ten percent translated into English, somewhere deeply burried in the
structure?
If - as already mentioned - I go to other commercial webpages, that do offer
a version in another language, they offer it at top of the page (or close
thereto); and they offer it ALL translated. What's more, they often do so
automatically. That is, they might check to see where your PC is located, based
on the IP address, or they might have a Remember my PC feature, that lets the
user choose his language preferences first time he visits the page, and
thereafter always takes him directly to the right translation.
What are you missing?
Again, lets now go down to a much lower level. The apps themsleves, make use
of XML files, that has totally seperate sections for each language. That is,
first the app is translated, the user will get his native language all the
time, fully automatically, and with no other blahblah mixed in. Why not App
Central? What are you missing?
Finally, App Central is run by GW. GW are the makers of Window-Eyes.
Window-Eyes, is delivered in a handful languages. The user is not even offered
a choice, as for his language, first the window-eyes has been paid for and
delivered. That is, if he bought a German version, all his Window-Eyes
hard-coded stuff (menus, error messages, manual and so forth) will be in
German. If he got the Norwegian version, well all his stuff will be in
Norwegian. There is no such thing as a Multi-Lingual version of Window-Eyes
itself. Lovely if there had been, and other screen reader manufacturers are
offering such a thing, but there is no such version of Window-Eyes. Then,
shouldn't the user have his right, to expect that App Central, which is
becoming one of the biggest features of Window-Eyes, should be presented in the
language corresponding with his version of Window-Eyes? At least as the
default. Let him then, decide if he wants to switch to English, because that is
his preference. If GW managed to implement the automatic language determination
in the app building - in combination with the XML files - and they come back
presenting their app central with the lack of this feature; and on top of
that, they ask 'what am I missing'... Well, I don't want to be harsh, but at
the end of that line, I am the one asking WHAT AM I MISSING; since app central
cannot be auto-lingual. And, at least, get that Change Language link far closer
to where the user would be likely to look for it. Then, come back, and ask your
question. :)
----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Smith
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:17 PM
Subject: App Central Localization (was Re: Package manager update question)
I'm not sure where this discussion stemmed from, but App Central is
currently available in several languages: English, Polish, Turkish, and German.
There's even a prominent "Change Language" link. Anyone is free to provide
localizations in any other language. In addition, every app details page
provide the ability to choose various languages, and localize strings in those
languages for app descriptions, and changes.
So what am I missing?
Aaron
On 5/9/2011 10:35 AM, David wrote:
Well, funny you Aaron brought up the question, if App Central is lacking?
And that is today? Why I say its funny, is because we had a bit of a discussion
last night, in Chip's scripting class. One thing, that definately is lacking,
is a multilingual website. GW ask the app developers to make their apps as
multilingual as possible, but what good is that? After uploading the app to the
web, the user will have to read and understand a pretty good chunk of English,
so as to even find the app he might want to install on his computer.
I know, that some - if not all - of your abroad, Non-English, dealers do
have their local websites. And they might be in the local language. Yet, they
don't hold any translated version of app central. Then, they go ahead, and
upload an app to the official app central. Just have a look at app central as
it stands today, and you will find at least three apps up there, with some
rather strange sounding names. At least, when you let Eloquence try to read
Polish app-names, with the English voice. And, there is more local scripts,
that a local dealer might want to maintain; or that could be developed so as to
meet local needs for a region. That is when the app might want to check for
updates other places than App central.
Back to the internationalization. That, at least, is an area, where app
central is greatly lacking. If you ask the app developers to go through all the
'hazzle' of having their apps translated; then why don't you take the lead?
With the risk of sounding critical, which was not my intention, I just summed
up what came out of the discussion last night. Would be great, to hear what
good reasons GW would have for their choice on leaving app central little
accessible for the users who are not strong in English.
----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Smith
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Package manager update question
On 5/9/2011 8:49 AM, Jacob Schmude wrote:
It's not so much that App Central is lacking as it is some certain
organizations do not want any scripts (encrypted or not) outside of their own
locations.
In that case, an app would need to handle all of the updating itself,
as you indicated.
Aaron
--
Aaron Smith
Web Development * App Development * Product Support Specialist
GW Micro, Inc. * 725 Airport North Office Park, Fort Wayne, IN 46825
260-489-3671 * gwmicro.com
To insure that you receive proper support, please include all past
correspondence (where applicable), and any relevant information
pertinent to your situation when submitting a problem report to the GW
Micro Technical Support Team.
--
Aaron Smith
Web Development * App Development * Product Support Specialist
GW Micro, Inc. * 725 Airport North Office Park, Fort Wayne, IN 46825
260-489-3671 * gwmicro.com
To insure that you receive proper support, please include all past
correspondence (where applicable), and any relevant information
pertinent to your situation when submitting a problem report to the GW
Micro Technical Support Team.
