And Rick, ain't that pretty much my points? I did write all my findings and immediate thoughts. Not sure, what is the misunderstanding here, but I guess it cooks down to whether you ever been sitting cross the ocean and trying it out, being foreign-languaged, or not. Yes, I have no problem with the English site, hence never bothered too much. But I do know, there is many a user who backs out, when they have to mes around with other than their native language.
Aaron, I still don't get what you are saying. You stated that the app central already does the automatic switching? Did I get that right, or would I be the one misunderstanding a point in here. Are you telling, that if I had a German Windows on my machine, thereby having say Internet Explorer in the German version, then opening App Central; the whole page, including the introductory links and info, the main section, and the footer with all the ads, would right away show up in German? Is that what you are trying to communicate? So, because my Windows is English, my Internet Explorer is in English, I am seeing the English version of the App Central, thereby deducting there was no auto-lingual function on the page. Or, am I totally lost in this matter, keeping misunderstandings going? No matter what misunderstandings would happen to be around, it still does not change the point of having the link for choosing language more visible to the user. And GW, who developed the browse mode, and should be the first ones to know how a newly opened page would be read, would be the first ones to have realized, that hiding away the link near the bottom is not going to benefit much users. Should be the matter of five minutes job, to have that part fixed. And, not sure if there is any misunderstanding about the reason for doing so. ----- Original Message ----- From: RicksPlace To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:46 PM Subject: Re: App Central Localization (was Re: Package manager update question) Actually that idea of allowing a user to view the site in their own language is a good one. It eliminates the need for maintaining several sites so versioning and maintenance would not be a problem. I agree however that the link should be at the very top of the site so it would be the first thing read when the page was opened by any user. It's text should also be generated in whatever language the page was being opened in. That should be doable enough with the localization features of most Website Development systems. I am not sure but you might even be able to generate the entire page in the target language when opened in diferent countries. Anyway, that is how I would do it if I were King of the World. Rick USA om: David To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 12:23 PM Subject: Re: App Central Localization (was Re: Package manager update question) OK, Aaron! Maybe you are not totally missing. Maybe we wer missing a bit. But still! Allright, I just had a look at App Central. Poof! Sorry, but, poof! Yes, you have the Change Language link. But where is it located? At top of the page, there is a link that lets the user Skip To The Main Content. Then comes a few introductory links. Are any of these the one we are looking for? Sorry, no! Skipping to the main contents, leads us to a list of the newest apps, the highest rated, or most recently updated apps. Will the link we are searching be found in this section? My appologize, but, NO! Then comes the bottom section, where you have all your contact and advertising stuff. A section, that most users do not bother to read. And, is the link in here? WOW; Yes! Deeply burried in the section where the user is not likely to even look. Is that an example of good wweb design? Sorry, to ask, but a link that would prove beneficial for several users, and would have a major impact on the web page, shouldn't that be expected at a much higher level? How many users - if you were to do a research among the thousands - do you expect ever would be aware that such a link did exist? None of the people I have talked to, at least. Either get that link in the top section; like most other web designers that offer multilingual sites. Or, at least have it at the beginning of the Main section, that you quickly can skip to. Try to think. The user opens App Central. He is given the information, that there is so many headers, so many links. Then, if his settings are as standard, WE starts to read the first 24 lines. At the very top, it says there is a link to skip to the main contents of the site. Now, what is the user likely to do? At least, I would either hit that skip link, or press the H key, so as to jump right down to the headers of the page. That is the way I do on a ton of other pages, and that is what I guess most people do. Now, when I get to the main section of App Central, I can make my searches. Likely, noone ever will be reading the whole page. And even if they did, they might likely stop when they get to the footer section. Is it any wonder, that the discussion ever came up? Noone has ever told, such a Change Language link is around. So not even if the user wanted to, he would know to search for it. Secondly. I tried it out. Well, I don't speak Polish or Turkish, so forget about them. But I do know how to read a bit of German. So I pressed the Change Language link, and chose German. Hmm! Hmmm! - Is that what you call a German site? Allright the middle section of the site was in German. But, the introductory section and the footer, was in English. Quite a stew to listen through, with the speech synth. Might be fancy enough for two eyes, but definately not what is good practice with assistive technology. If I go to places like Google, and ask the webpage to change to Danish, it does not present me with a stew of English, Danish, and whatever. It changes the WHOLE page, into the target language. Well, Aaron, and the rest of you. Let me take you out of that English-speaking world, and show you what real life is like - for a load of people, who just happened to be born on the other side of the street. Imagine, you were sitting in Germany. Your English skills are rather limitted. Still, you are all the time hearing about the many great features of apps. So, one day, you decide to take the plunge. You enter the web address in your browser. Bang! There you are placed, on top of a webpage, which runs over many screens. It is all in the language, of which you are not very good at - English. In here, you are supposed to look for a Change Language link. You don't know it exists, and you won't find it until you have been scrolling through more or less the whole webpage; listening to all that BlahBlah-stuff, that you hardly understand, due to it being in a foreign language. Who knows, how many would go through all that hazzle. But, you are of the persistent sort, and you finally hit the link. With a breathe of relief, you press the Enter key; hoping that your trials are passed. And? What are you presented with? A new page, which from the beginning point, is babling away on its English. You now, are supposed to know, that you should just scroll down the page, because at some funny point, you would eventually be hitting something that you finally do understand. Aaron, WHAT are you missing? Did you want me to send you a handful links for pages that are all in Norwegian, Danish or Swedish; but who might be offering things you might want to get your hands on. Wonder how long you would have been enjoying playing around on such pages. Well, unless you took on yourself, to really study the new language. After all, how many of the users on this list, would visit - and stay tuned with - a webpage in Chinese, that would happen to have ten percent translated into English, somewhere deeply burried in the structure? If - as already mentioned - I go to other commercial webpages, that do offer a version in another language, they offer it at top of the page (or close thereto); and they offer it ALL translated. What's more, they often do so automatically. That is, they might check to see where your PC is located, based on the IP address, or they might have a Remember my PC feature, that lets the user choose his language preferences first time he visits the page, and thereafter always takes him directly to the right translation. What are you missing? Again, lets now go down to a much lower level. The apps themsleves, make use of XML files, that has totally seperate sections for each language. That is, first the app is translated, the user will get his native language all the time, fully automatically, and with no other blahblah mixed in. Why not App Central? What are you missing? Finally, App Central is run by GW. GW are the makers of Window-Eyes. Window-Eyes, is delivered in a handful languages. The user is not even offered a choice, as for his language, first the window-eyes has been paid for and delivered. That is, if he bought a German version, all his Window-Eyes hard-coded stuff (menus, error messages, manual and so forth) will be in German. If he got the Norwegian version, well all his stuff will be in Norwegian. There is no such thing as a Multi-Lingual version of Window-Eyes itself. Lovely if there had been, and other screen reader manufacturers are offering such a thing, but there is no such version of Window-Eyes. Then, shouldn't the user have his right, to expect that App Central, which is becoming one of the biggest features of Window-Eyes, should be presented in the language corresponding with his version of Window-Eyes? At least as the default. Let him then, decide if he wants to switch to English, because that is his preference. If GW managed to implement the automatic language determination in the app building - in combination with the XML files - and they come back presenting their app central with the lack of this feature; and on top of that, they ask 'what am I missing'... Well, I don't want to be harsh, but at the end of that line, I am the one asking WHAT AM I MISSING; since app central cannot be auto-lingual. And, at least, get that Change Language link far closer to where the user would be likely to look for it. Then, come back, and ask your question. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: Aaron Smith To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:17 PM Subject: App Central Localization (was Re: Package manager update question) I'm not sure where this discussion stemmed from, but App Central is currently available in several languages: English, Polish, Turkish, and German. There's even a prominent "Change Language" link. Anyone is free to provide localizations in any other language. In addition, every app details page provide the ability to choose various languages, and localize strings in those languages for app descriptions, and changes. So what am I missing? Aaron On 5/9/2011 10:35 AM, David wrote: Well, funny you Aaron brought up the question, if App Central is lacking? And that is today? Why I say its funny, is because we had a bit of a discussion last night, in Chip's scripting class. One thing, that definately is lacking, is a multilingual website. GW ask the app developers to make their apps as multilingual as possible, but what good is that? After uploading the app to the web, the user will have to read and understand a pretty good chunk of English, so as to even find the app he might want to install on his computer. I know, that some - if not all - of your abroad, Non-English, dealers do have their local websites. And they might be in the local language. Yet, they don't hold any translated version of app central. Then, they go ahead, and upload an app to the official app central. Just have a look at app central as it stands today, and you will find at least three apps up there, with some rather strange sounding names. At least, when you let Eloquence try to read Polish app-names, with the English voice. And, there is more local scripts, that a local dealer might want to maintain; or that could be developed so as to meet local needs for a region. That is when the app might want to check for updates other places than App central. Back to the internationalization. That, at least, is an area, where app central is greatly lacking. If you ask the app developers to go through all the 'hazzle' of having their apps translated; then why don't you take the lead? With the risk of sounding critical, which was not my intention, I just summed up what came out of the discussion last night. Would be great, to hear what good reasons GW would have for their choice on leaving app central little accessible for the users who are not strong in English. ----- Original Message ----- From: Aaron Smith To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 3:19 PM Subject: Re: Package manager update question On 5/9/2011 8:49 AM, Jacob Schmude wrote: It's not so much that App Central is lacking as it is some certain organizations do not want any scripts (encrypted or not) outside of their own locations. In that case, an app would need to handle all of the updating itself, as you indicated. Aaron -- Aaron Smith Web Development * App Development * Product Support Specialist GW Micro, Inc. * 725 Airport North Office Park, Fort Wayne, IN 46825 260-489-3671 * gwmicro.com To insure that you receive proper support, please include all past correspondence (where applicable), and any relevant information pertinent to your situation when submitting a problem report to the GW Micro Technical Support Team. -- Aaron Smith Web Development * App Development * Product Support Specialist GW Micro, Inc. * 725 Airport North Office Park, Fort Wayne, IN 46825 260-489-3671 * gwmicro.com To insure that you receive proper support, please include all past correspondence (where applicable), and any relevant information pertinent to your situation when submitting a problem report to the GW Micro Technical Support Team.
