I can't say I agree with you that it's about conformity or being female. It *can* be about conformity, but it also can be about leadership. I am a project manager by profession, and I absolutely have to say in team meetings "what does the rest of the group think"?
A recreational e-group is not a job/work team meeting. Nor, unlike a work meeting, does it usually exist to perform any specific task or solve any specific problem. Nor do most social situations exist for work purposes.
What I am driving at is that women traditionally--though not, BTW, by most employees in any company I've ever worked for, and not nearly as much in the San Francisco area as with people from some other geographic areas I encounter on the net--are expected to express themselves differently from men. Some women seem to feel expected to say almost everything with an implicit apology built in, a continual deference to everyone else, a continual wariness as to whether they're agreeing or disagreeing with anyone whatever about anything whatever. The attitude is that people are always important than facts, ideas, analysis, and any and every criteria above or outside of "belonging to the group."
I find it puzzling, because as I said, real friendship is very seldom involved. It's not like most people women are expected to defer to would do anything whatever for them in any time of trouble. Often the relationships they work so hard to maintain have a constant hostile undercurrent. It seems like a useless endeavor.
And, most men get through life just fine saying what they think and standing by it. There is no reason why women should have to behave differently.
I'll agree that women should not just back down because someone disagrees with them or calls them rude. However, I can't agree that being honest about one's opinions or asking for input from others is necessarily a bad trait.
I think being honest about one's opinions--rather than constantly deferring to others regarding said opinions--is a very positive trait.
As for asking for input from others--asking someone who has, or who you believe to have expertise, is not the same thing as constantly making sure you don't ever disagree with anyone about anything, or apologizing every time you do. Most of what I'm talking about has nothing to do with anyone's expertise.
Also, the business of a social group allotting people specific slots as anoited experts who are assumed to be _always_ right about their topic, and whom no one ever disagrees with, and some of them even expect everyone to apologize for offering any information about "their" topic even if it is in agreement with them: This is just a facet of what I was talking about above, assuming that "the group" is always more important than ideas, facts, analysis, and everything outside "the group."
In other words, it is sensible to ask your plumber for her or his expert opinion on whether all your pipes really need to be replaced. Even though you may or may not follow that advice, because it is also sensible to get estimates from other plumbers and read up on the subject before hiring anyone. Just because an "expert" says something does not mean they are always correct or unbiased.
Going through social or work life saying, "I don't want to step on anyone's toes by even discussing this subject, and I don't want to upset anyone by disagreeing, but I think thus and so, but of course your mileage may vary and I'm perfectly willing to retract everything I just said if even a single person disagrees, and if I did happen to disagree with anyone I'm really sorry because I must have hurt their feelings" yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, is just female conformity that achieves no productive end whatever.
It all depends on the way it's done and how.
It also depends on where it's done, and for what purpose. Again, a meeting of project members on a work team is not a social e-group. Nor do I usually hear people constantly apologizing for their opinions or stated facts in work situations.
Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list [email protected] http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
