> > I think there is a picture of the Manchester stays in "Corsets and > > Crinolines", with a later date. I have a drawing from a student of the > > same stays, also dated later. I think that date given was 1670 - court > > dress of this time had the tops of the shoulders exposed. > > Thank you, Suzi, this is what I thought I remembered.
I don't have C&C on me, but will try and have a look. Is it a line drawing/pattern or photo? As for the shape: These are from the 1630s, but are Dutch, http://www.marquise.de/database/dbout.php?name=1636_1&pfad=1600. Anne Countess of Clanbrassil Anthonis van Dijck, 1636 http://www.marquise.de/database/dbout.php?name=1639_1.jpg&pfad=1600. Maria Ruthwen Anthonis van Dijck, 1639 And this is from the 1650s, http://www.marquise.de/database/dbout.php?name=1655_2&pfad=1600. Paternal Advice Gerard ter Borch, 1655 While not quite off the shoulder, it does show that classic shape. http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/galleries_earlye.html More of the same sort of thing. In fact I'm inclined to agree the stays are slightly earlier than the V&A ones as they show this broader back as seen in the gowns of the decades before the 1660s. But I really don't understand where the 1620s date comes from. http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/galleries_dutch_paintings4.html Maybe 1650s (The Card Players, ca. 1650) Anyone want to write to the museum and ask for how the dating came to be? I'm guessing it's partly down to how very long and broad the tabs are at the back. They are also not held in check with little godets like there are at the front (and also seen all over the Pink stays.) The tabs of the effigy stays are also pretty large, so they may have been going by them as a guage (being now thought to be current to Elizabeth's time of death.) It may also be partly to do with the actual seaming through the torso as well. Note how very curved the seams are in the gowns and pink V&A stays compared with the very vertical seams in the manchester stays. There are fewer pieces as well one back, two sides and two fronts, the V&A stays are made from "ten sections" I think that means ten sections to the body, plus sleeves and stomacher... but I can't be sure. Ten sections corresponds to the apparent pieces in the body anyway. Regards, Michaela de Bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 19/06/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list [email protected] http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
