At 03:25 20/06/2006, you wrote:
>http://www.manchestergalleries.org/costume/object.php?irn=14962&QueryPage=i
n
> dex.php&themeback=2&CostumeTheme=costume%20sub-theme
> >
> > It is dated 1620 to 1640, but to my eye it looks a bit later. Does
anyone
> > on the list know anything about this garment, and about how accurately
> it's
> > dated?
> It looks later to me, too, but the 17th century isn't my primary area.
> Heck, it almost looks 18th century-ish to me....
Nah, just look at that shoulder line;) If it's later, it's no later than
1660s or 70s.
It's very similar to the pink stays at the V&A.
http://images.vam.ac.uk/
Object
Stays and busk
Date
1660-1670
Techniques
Pink watered silk (English or Italian), backed with linen, stitched
with pink silk thread and reinforced with whalebone
(Stays) Edged and decorated with pink silk grosgrain ribbons with
tinned iron points
Museum Number
T.14&A-1951
http://images.vam.ac.uk/images/photo/sch/20000504/high/mb37-002.jpg
http://images.vam.ac.uk/images/photo/sch/20000504/high/mb37-001.jpg
http://images.vam.ac.uk/images/photo/pcd/76993272/high/2836-007.jpg
These though are much narrower in the back, so these are probably of a later
date than the Manchester stays. So I'm guessing the Manchester ones are no
later than 1650s...?
I wonder if the Manchester stays are displayed with the opening too wide at
the top, thus changing the shape of them somewhat? Or if the V&A stays are
displayed with the opening too close together?
I adore these two sets of stays, and if I have an excuse to make a pair like
them, I will;)
I think there is a picture of the Manchester stays in "Corsets and
Crinolines", with a later date. I have a drawing from a student of
the same stays, also dated later. I think that date given was 1670 -
court dress of this time had the tops of the shoulders exposed.
I recently looked at 17th Century stays at the Museum of London, and
they were similar in shape, and also dated later.
There has been talk of a set of stays being found in Wales, which are
much earlier in date, and I believe Ian the Staymaker was invited to
look at them. However, to the best of my knowledge, nothing has yet
been published about them. Bjarne mentioned them in a post some time
ago, I think.
Though I do have a question, hopefully someone where has studied the art of
making stays; why is it that before the 19thC strips of baleen used for the
bulk of stays were so incredibly narrow? I'm sure you get more flexibility
with it but still have a very supportive garment. But is the benefit so
great for so much more extra work? Was it down to the methods of cutting
perhaps?
Can't help with this one - sorry!
Suzi
Michaela de Bruce
http://glittersweet.com
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