Do you think the lecturer will let me sit in the class? Maybe one of you have her's email?
amichay 2011/2/22 Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda <ladyp...@gmail.com> > Computer security: > http://www.graduate.technion.ac.il/heb/Subjects/?SUB=236350 > Ask the lecturer for permission to sit in the class, write down everything > you do not understand or have never heard of, and go and learn it yourself > afterward. > > Orna > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:59 AM, amichay p. k. <am1chay....@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> First of all, thank you everyone for the advice, I'm always happy to hear >> other opinions. >> I guess there is something in what you say, but I want you to pay >> attention to my following preferences: >> >> * I'm not interested in learning subjects that have no possibility for >> practical use - "hands on" type of knowledge. >> * I do not want to learn about programming / science / math, at least not >> before the military service. >> * Work that I most want is to be in information security, security >> consultant recommended / penetration testing consultant. >> ** To work in this profession I have to have a good knowledge of computer >> systems, servers, networks, etc.. >> >> Which course do you recommend for me at this point, about eight months to >> military service? >> >> Amichay >> >> 2011/2/22 Greg Pendler <pend...@gmail.com> >> >> Great manifesto. I can second every word. Studying is your and everyone >>> else's way to succeed, but not all studying options were born equal- choose >>> wisely. As someone interviewing people I can say that university degree >>> makes a big difference while different courses are probably doing the >>> opposite. >>> >>> Good luck >>> Greg >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 21, 2011, at 15:48, Michael Vasiliev <mycr...@yandex.ru> wrote: >>> >>> On 02/20/2011 09:23 AM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda wrote: >>> >>> How about starting your CS BSc instead? The open U is free for all, even >>> if you do not have the bagrut yet, and the Technion has special programs for >>> good students - some start at 16 or earlier. >>> >>> I'm replying to this reply, since I did not get the original letter (ugh, >>> again!), and can't figure out whose mail server is to blame. >>> >>> Even though more than good 13 years passed since I was in that exact >>> situation, I'd like to share some insights, based on nothing else but actual >>> experience. Let's say you are, like I was, a young hacker in his teen years >>> looking for a job. You have some computer, network, linux, and programming >>> knowledge, and lacking relevant experience, you're looking into persuading >>> the employer in your abilities. You are, like all people have a resource, >>> time, which you want to invest wisely. >>> >>> First of all, if you think that a prospective employer would take a teen >>> off the street, with or without courses and let him manage expensive >>> equipment and business-critical data, you're so wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. >>> I cannot emphasize it any further. Unlest that employer is your close >>> relative, the best you're looking at is laying LAN cable or assembling >>> computers from parts, both below minimum wage (sic!). The kind of jobs you >>> have the lowest chance to make a mistake at, from the employer's view. >>> Delegate-able, mundane, tiring, minimal possible loss jobs. Worst part of >>> it, these are also available right now, without any courses. Nowadays, every >>> business is an information business, and were IT business a Zen monastery, >>> that's the kind of jobs you were doing in your first year. Except that in >>> Zen monastery, you get to learn later on, and here you're not. Every job you >>> can get, you can continue doing for the rest of your life, because there's >>> no shortage of the same dull tasks, and every single one of these jobs is >>> both a career dead-end and a constant insult to your intelligence. >>> >>> Let's talk courses now. These credit-less courses are on the level of >>> advanced OS user at best, the programming ones are on the level of novice >>> programmer, it's nothing you don't know already. They're thriving since the >>> days of the hi-tech bubble, and only during these crazy days they were >>> somewhat effective. Back then, with the shortage of hands and abundance of >>> shareholder's money, you could actually get a position doing absolutely >>> nothing of value whatsoever. All course graduates hired back then found >>> themselves unemployed when the bubble burst. But people still try the "easy >>> way to high-tech salary". Isn't that the all-around marketing slogan? That's >>> how it will be: the course will be filled with naive people who don't know >>> two bits about computers and want to switch from another field, unrelated to >>> exact sciences. By offering yourself as a lowest bidder in terms of >>> knowledge you'll get, on these courses you'll be taught by (surprise!) -- a >>> lowest-bidder lecturer, which is at best a university or college student or >>> dropout, an unlucky jobless teacher, or, in vast majority of cases, a >>> "graduate" of the very same courses on minimum wage. I was both the >>> "student" and "lecturer" in similar circumstances, and I feel bad for doing >>> both. The kind of nasty feeling if you have personal ethics for your >>> vertebrae column and know that despite your best efforts, you're doing a >>> half-arsed job. Pardon the wording. >>> This budget you describe can pay tuition fees for one year of proper, >>> regular CS university courses or a university preparatory program you could >>> use to improve your school grades. Or you can study for a psychometric exam >>> (best of such study is, surprisingly, not a course, but gathering course >>> books of all your friends and sitting on your butt solving them with pencil, >>> eraser and stopwatch in the privacy and comfort of your own home, which is >>> another lesson I've learned the hard way). Time and budget permitting, try >>> to get into excellent student program in your school, that will get you >>> university courses for a credit to use later. Try to get the best grades you >>> can while still IN SCHOOL, or improve the one you already have. >>> >>> To summarize: I've been on that very road, and I cannot say anything but >>> "don't waste your time taking such courses". It's nothing but ripoff and a >>> complete waste of your precious time. Please, I'm begging you. I >>> wholeheartedly wish someone persuaded me otherwise back then. Make your >>> decision on a field and work relentlessly towards getting a proper degree. >>> If you can't figure out what field you like, but you think it's something >>> from exact sciences, start with math(preferrably) or physics. Both can give >>> you a solid math background, a hardcore skeleton of your knowledge, a basic >>> science firmware for your brain you can use for switching to any field of >>> study. Math courses in university are unbeaten in being accepted everywhere >>> for credit towards exact sciences degree. Math is the language of science, >>> and the only way to speak it is speaking it fluently. >>> >>> Army is still a part of your life, and the same principles apply. If >>> you're stuck out of your field, don't let your brains go limp. Continue >>> self-education on any opportunity you get. Browse university websites and >>> borrow their programs. Read, read, read. If you can't carry a book, solve >>> math exercises out of university books or crosswords in another language. >>> Invent exercises for yourself. You won't regret the effort. The neurons in >>> the brain reorganize to better solve everyday tasks, the same way muscle >>> cells do. Exercise makes perfect. I'm not talking about a majority but >>> literally all people complain about hardships of going back to school after >>> an army or a study break. Continuously remind yourself about your long-term >>> goals. Evaluate your past and present usage of available time and >>> instruments, your progress towards these goals. Don't be afraid to go over >>> the same things over and over. Summarize, write down and re-learn useful >>> things you inevitably forget. Learn how to learn effectively. Every person >>> has strengths and weaknesses in information gathering and processing, learn >>> how to exploit yours. Read books about thinking and learning. Read books >>> that make you think. Aggressively limit investment of your time to study >>> proprietary technology. It's out of your long-term interest. It will be >>> gone, abandoned by its very creators, before you could benefit fully from >>> your investment. >>> >>> One thing to remember: Even the best teacher is always secondary to a >>> student. It's like one and zero. A student studying alone is a still a good >>> student. A teacher can as much as double his student's personal investment. >>> A teacher without a student is nothing. Best teachers motivate and allow >>> their students to learn on their own and they need no advertising. A word of >>> mouth will suffice. Your own will is the cornerstone of your knowledge. >>> >>> Heh, what started as an innocent letter turned out to be a personal >>> manifesto. I wish you the best of luck, perhaps I'll meet you on DEFCON one >>> day. Make your decisions wisely. Hope the read wasn't too boring. Dixi. >>> >>> -- >>> MichaelV >>> >>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I consider these days to start learning computer technician course. >>>> This course is MCTIP by Microsoft, + free Linux course. >>>> Total of 252 + 64 hours, + Microsoft and LPIC 1 + 2 exams. >>>> The price is 11,700, including everything. >>>> >>>> Do you have any idea whether I should study the course? >>>> You know what the price range for similar courses? >>>> Any advice? >>>> >>>> Thanks, Amichay >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> "the debate isn't security versus privacy. It's liberty versus control" >>>> Bruce Schneier >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Linux-il mailing list >>>> <linux...@cs.huji.ac.il>linux...@cs.huji.ac.il >>>> <http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il> >>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. >>> <http://ladypine.org>http://ladypine.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Haifux mailing list <Haifux@haifux.org>Haifux@haifux.org >>> <http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux>http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Haifux mailing list >>> Haifux@haifux.org >>> http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> "the debate isn't security versus privacy. It's liberty versus control" >> Bruce Schneier >> >> > > > -- > Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. > http://ladypine.org > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "the debate isn't security versus privacy. It's liberty versus control" Bruce Schneier
_______________________________________________ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux