It also doesn't help that current M providers don't say 'M'. They don't because it is [currently] perceived as legacy and instead push "object oriented", "relational", "SQL", etc. By pushing other technologies those vendors can be comparable to Oracle and Microsoft on paper and for traditional CIOs. However, by excluding 'M', they're not screaming "We're not legacy!" - instead they say "What's M? No, we use this super new fast object based *system*".
Does the fact that GTM doesn't say "SQL" or "object oriented" by itself put it off the scope? I think if vendors admitted (on their home page) that M still exists, it would mean that M isn't dead. The fact that M can be combined with newer technologies such as Web Services and ODBC is a great thing. And it also proved that it can move forward as a development tool just like standard C and ASM. I wouldn't want to compare M to COBOL and say COBOL's not dead either. Aligning M with the likes of C# might not be the wisest course of action. Proving that M isn't dead by showing signs of its youth, use, and extensibility seems wiser. Google 'MUMPS Server' - lots of good relevant hits to products Google 'SQL Server' - same Google 'COBOL Server' - tons of developer related sites - not many products - ever hear of Micro Focus Server? (me - not really) Lesson - COBOL's dead. It exists because migration is costly and takes time. M isn't dead because we're still writing new implementations for it. Not many COBOL developers writing totally new implementations for new customers - they're mostly programs needing tweaks and in 'maintenance mode'. But sad to say, not many jobs pushing M or COBOL. :( Not quite what the college kids are learning or excited about. But that's a whole other thread. /David. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Link, Chuck M Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Hardhats-members] We need a news stories library Ah yes. . . Because of those lobbying efforts, the VA tried the "newer" technology at three of it's medical center. Each site failed, miserably. > ---------- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Gordon Moreshead > Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, December 3, 2004 10:53 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [Hardhats-members] We need a news stories library > > Don't forget the huge lobby efforts in and around Washington (because of > heavy government use of M) that have worked very hard for years to cast M as > "old Technology". > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cameron > Schlehuber > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 9:39 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [Hardhats-members] We need a news stories library > > And then there are the power plants that still use ... gasp! ... steam! > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ormsby, > Skip > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 9:13 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [Hardhats-members] We need a news stories library > > Hmm... I wonder if those folks who use the "old technology" argument, > don't drive a vehicle that uses a piston engine? After all the piston > engine has been around for a very long time. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 10:23 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [Hardhats-members] We need a news stories library > > Kevin, > > You are battling an age-old predjudice against M. It seems M was > considered "old technology" (by the un-informed), before it was old ! I > think alot of the predjudice goes back to the poorly chosen (IMO) name > of MUMPS, for the language. > Had it has been named "Laser" or maybe just "M" in the beginning, it > might have enjoyed a different trajectory. > > Certainly the biggest M vendor understands the marketing difficulties > with system based on MUMPS. One has to look hard for any references to > it in their marketing material. Instead, it is called post-relational, > object oriented, and multi-dimensional. All of which is true. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Joseph > Dal Molin > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 9:48 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] We need a news stories library > > > Consider it done Kevin....great idea....especially the part about > delegating Nancy to do the work :-) > > Joseph > > Kevin Toppenberg wrote: > > Someone from my group was grumbling recently that VistA is going to be > > > a bad option for our group because is it "old technology." > > > > And then Bhaskar posts regarding a Thai Bank converting to GT.M. And > > Nancy regularly posts ongoing news about VistA etc. > > > > Could we start a subpage on the WorldVistA web site that lists these > > news stories, so I could take someone there and show them at a glance > > all the ongoing activity? It would help prove that M / VistA is not > "dead". > > > > I'd like to nominate Nancy to be the one to regularly add to such a > > page.. :-) Nancy, you can thank me later. LOL! > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. > > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=29914/*http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid > reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. > http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Hardhats-members mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid > reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. > http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Hardhats-members mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide > Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. > http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Hardhats-members mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide > Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. > http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Hardhats-members mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.803 / Virus Database: 546 - Release Date: 11/30/2004 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.803 / Virus Database: 546 - Release Date: 11/30/2004 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide > Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. 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