I agree with that. I have a DS1817+ and I’m not that concerned. An attacker
would have to get their own code running on my Synology in order to exploit
the vulns, and I don’t install new code on there all that often. It’s not
like a desktop where you’re constantly downloading and opening/executing
new files.

On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 10:08 AM Greg Sevart <[email protected]> wrote:

> Synology does have some vulnerable models and does not appear to have
> released any fixes yet.
> https://www.synology.com/en-global/support/security/Synology_SA_18_01
>
> However, I don't think this is a big concern for appliances like that.
> Effective exploitation of meltdown or spectre requires running code on the
> target system.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hardware [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
> Of Winterlight
> Sent: Friday, July 6, 2018 11:41 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [H] Should I rebuild my machine now or wait until the next gen
> of CPUs?
>
>
> I was planning on getting a Synology
> NAS....should I be concerned about security? I assumed that they would have
> this problem locked down on their new hardware...but I am not sure.
>
> At 07:01 PM 7/6/2018, you wrote:
> >Thus far, AMD's story has been more compelling than Intel's. AMD is
> >immune to meltdown, and is broadly speaking less vulnerable to the
> >Sceptre variants. However, it would be naïve to believe that AMD is in
> >the clear, as additional vulnerabilities are slowly coming out in this
> >new and novel class of attack vector.
> >
> >My thinking is that while both Linux and Windows are currently only
> >doing the PTI/KernelVA shadowing for Intel, it will eventually be
> >mandatory for all architectures--for defense in depth if nothing else.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Hardware
> >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian
> >Weeden
> >Sent: Friday, July 6, 2018 3:42 PM
> >To: hardware <[email protected]>
> >Subject: Re: [H] Should I rebuild my machine now or wait until the next
> >gen of CPUs?
> >
> >Winter, that is exactly the situation I'm in and the question I'm
> >asking. I have not applied any patches to my system because a) they're
> >only partially effective and b) they have a performance hit.
> >
> >So I'm trying to see if it makes sense to upgrade to a new machine now,
> >or whether I should stick it out for another several months
> >(year?) to see if Intel or AMD rolls out something that actually fixes
> >the underlying problems.
> >
> >
> >
> >---------
> >Brian
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 4:38 PM, Winterlight
> ><[email protected]>
> >wrote:
> >
> > > This has been an interesting thread. So Greg the Ivy Bridge patch
> > > that you posted will be delivered by Windows 10 ...eventually...
> > > maybe? I am still running a P9X79 WS with my six core Ivy Bridge with
> Win10.
> > > InSpectre tells me Spectre is not protected and performance is slower.
> > > Just how much at risk am I. I figure I will never see a BIOS update..
> > > ... or will I. The whole thing is a big mess, and I would imagine
> > > there are all sorts of class action law
> > suites heading toward CPU and motherboard manufactures.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 10:08 AM 7/6/2018, you wrote:
> > >
> > >> The chipset vulnerabilities were ugly, yes, but for their part AMD
> > >> did ensure they were resolved quickly despite the research firm not
> > >> following industry best-practices regarding vulnerability disclosure.
> > >> My bigger beef is that AMD would use ASSmedia (not a typo) at all,
> > >> given their fairly well-established track
> > record of being roughly equivalent to dog excrement.
> > >> I don't subscribe to the AMD Fanboy narrative that it was an Intel
> > >> hit-job, though.
> > >>
> > >> Intel's roadmap is a real mess right now. A sudden and surprisingly
> > >> competitive AMD portfolio coupled with severe yield and performance
> > >> issues with their ambitious 10nm process technology has painted
> > >> them into a corner with no good near-term options. So, they're
> > >> going to push their 14nm++ tech for another iteration, adding
> > >> cores, to (try
> > >> to) re-establish clear superiority . Luckily
> > for them, their 14++ is actually really good.
> > >>
> > >> Greg
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Hardware [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > >> Behalf Of Brian Weeden
> > >> Sent: Friday, July 6, 2018 9:03 AM
> > >> To: hardware <[email protected]>
> > >> Subject: Re: [H] Should I rebuild my machine now or wait until the
> > >> next gen of CPUs?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,  Greg. That pretty much aligns with my thought process on
> > >> this, so I guess it's good at least one other person is coming to
> > >> the same conclusions I am :)
> > >>
> > >> Didn't know about the Ivy Bridge patches - will look into that more.
> > >> But one of the reasons I haven't patched at all is that all the
> > >> mitigations for older chips like mine have had significant
> > >> performance penalties. And at this point that's a bigger issue for
> > >> me than the security, as I'm not really in that big of a threat
> environment.
> > >>
> > >> But I plan to use whatever I buy for the next several years and it
> > >> would be good to get something that's not going to have major
> > >> structural vulnerabilities that will be problems that entire time.
> > >>
> > >> My major hangup with AMD is not the performance but rather the
> > >> massive vulnerabilities found in their Ryzen chipset, all because
> > >> they did a very poor job providing oversight of the company they
> > >> outsourced it to. That doesn't speak well of
> > their commitment to security in my mind.
> > >>
> > >> I had heard that Intel's 2018 lineup was delayed until next year as
> > >> they try and fix all this stuff, but maybe
> > that was just for their mobile chips?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------
> > >> Brian
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Greg Sevart <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Actually, your Ivy Bridge CPU had new microcode revision with
> > >> > additional Spectre defenses released just this past Monday. While
> > >> > it's a long-shot for your motherboard manufacturer to release a
> > >> > new FW update, it *is* likely to appear in an OS patch. CPU
> > >> > microcode can and is loaded via multiple mechanisms, including
> > >> > during OS early boot. On Windows, your options are a bit more
> > >> > limited as you must wait for Microsoft to update their microcode
> patch.
> > >> >
> > >> > Microsoft's microcode patch information, which is ONLY available
> > >> > for Windows 10 1709 (or later?) can be found here:
> > >> > https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4090007/intel-microcode-
> > >> > up
> > >> > dat
> > >> > es
> > >> >
> > >> > It's something of a mess. As you may see, Ivy Bridge desktop CPUs
> > >> > are not listed explicitly, but I've heard reports of the patch
> > >> > taking effect on them anyway. Use a tool such as InSpectre or
> > >> > Get-SpeculationControlSettings in the PowerShell Gallery to
> > >> > verify your
> > >> status post-update.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > With regard to an upgrade...hard to say. On the desktop side,
> > >> > with Ryzen, AMD has finally released a product that is competitive.
> > >> > Broadly speaking (i.e., on overall average), it is not clearly
> > >> > superior despite higher core counts, but very competitive and
> > >> > hence a viable option to Intel's Coffee Lake SKUs. If you're
> > >> > interested in HEDT, that's a bit harder to answer...for highly
> > >> > threaded workloads, the
> > >> > Threadripper/X399 platform wins on both performance and price
> > >> > (despite the dumb name and attempt to usurp Intel's existing
> > >> > platform naming scheme), but if single-threaded performance is
> > >> > more important,
> > >> Skylake-X/X299 is still the better bet.
> > >> >
> > >> > CPUs with integrated defenses to the various Spectre variants are
> > >> > expected near the end of the year. As it stands now, performance
> > >> > wise, Intel's silicon is more negatively impacted via existing
> > >> > mitigations, but not enough to make a meaningful difference in
> > >> > *most* client workloads for current silicon. Older CPUs (such as
> > >> > your Ivy) that do not support INVPCID are
> > especially hurt by Meltdown's mitigation.
> > >> > Fundamentally, I don't think either one is substantially more
> > >> > secure if
> > >> your mitigations are current.
> > >> > While we've already seen some since the initial 3 CVEs were
> > >> > announced, it's widely expected that more vulnerabilities will be
> > >> > discovered in the coming months and years as this new and novel
> > >> > class of attack
> > >> vector is researched.
> > >> >
> > >> > Major items rumored to be coming soon-ish:
> > >> > Intel desktop: Widely expected to have a new 8-core mainstream
> > >> > chip out sometime later this year.
> > >> > Intel HEDT: Cascade Lake-X expected in Q4, up to 28C, though the
> > >> > series may span sockets. Maybe a 22C interim offering?
> > >> > AMD Desktop: Zen+ 2000-series just released offering minor
> > >> > improvements, Zen 2 expected next year AMD HEDT: Zen+ refresh of
> > >> > Threadripper expected soon, up to 32C.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > My personal take: I'd buy Intel for intensive, lightly-threaded
> > >> > workloads, and AMD for intensive, heavily-threaded workloads.
> > >> > Anything not intensive isn't going to be different enough to
> > >> > matter, so go with whatever floats your boat and/or wallet.
> > >> >
> > >> > Greg
> > >> >
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: Hardware [mailto:[email protected]]
> > >> > On Behalf Of Brian Weeden
> > >> > Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2018 9:45 PM
> > >> > To: hwg <[email protected]>
> > >> > Subject: [H] Should I rebuild my machine now or wait until the
> > >> > next gen of CPUs?
> > >> >
> > >> > Currently running a core i5-3750K with 32GB of RAM on my main
> > >> > machine, which I use for both work and gaming.
> > >> >
> > >> > Been looking to replace it for several months now, but have held
> > >> > off in part because of all the vulnerabilities that keep turning
> > >> > up in modern CPUs (Meltdown, Spectre, and all their variants).
> > >> > The thing is, my existing CPU is old enough that it doesn't
> > >> > support any of the mitigations, so I'm actually less secure now
> > >> > than if I bought a new CPU that at least had mitigations against
> > >> > the vulns (even if the new CPUs that actually fix them are 6-12
> months away).
> > >> >
> > >> > So first question is, is the time right to go do this now?
> > >> >
> > >> > Second question is, Intel or AMD? Is one better off than the
> > >> > other from a security standpoint that's worth taking into
> consideration?
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > ---------
> > >> > Brian
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> --


---------
Brian

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