My comments below in green. Thanks, Jasmin From: Heb-naco [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dickel, Geraldine Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 10:19 AM To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh
Dear colleagues, It seems to me that we are in agreement that the unvocalized tetragrammaton should be Romanized in the 245 field as YHṾH. For a vocalized tetragrammaton, we have several suggestions or options. To summarize: 1. Romanize as YHṾH, i.e. follow the consonants and ignore the vowels in the 245. Perhaps add a 500 note to say something like: tetragrammaton is vocalized as ______. (A library that prefers to use variations on words for the deity could do so in a 500 note, e.g., Elokim instead of Elohim.) If vowels are supplied, they should not be ignored; that’s not the author’s intent. 2. If the vowels are the vowels for Adonai or Elohim, Romanize as Adonai or Elohim, i.e., follow the vowels and ignore the consonants. Makes most sense (with an added title access point for the title with the YHṾH form and possibly other forms, depending on context). 3. If the vowels are the vowels for Adonai or Elohim, Romanize as Yehoṿah, i.e., follow the vowels and the consonants. Doesn’t make any sense; if one follows both vowels and consonants, the romanization would be Yahovai or Yehovi, neither of which is in any use. 4. If it is a modern vocalization, Romanize as Yahṿeh, i.e. follow the vowels and consonants. What’s a “modern” vocalization??? I think that, until we have more time to consider the question and perhaps collect some examples, we might need to deal with vocalized tetragrammatons on a case by case basis. Best wishes, Jerry Anne From: Heb-naco [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Yossi Galron Sent: Friday, July 07, 2017 3:11 PM To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh We, back in the Holy Land, secular Sabras pronounced the All Mighty's name YHVH as Yehovah. If our teacher was from a religious background he would correct us and say: Adonai. If he would come from a more orthodox background, he would correct us to Ha-Shem. When we read the Shma we would say Adonai. In any case, I am for YHVH and an appropriate 246 for variants. On Jul 7, 2017 8:27 AM, "Freedman, Vanessa" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I agree with Jasmin. I can’t imagine anyone would read (or search for) the Tetragrammaton (even if vocalised) as ‘Yehovah’ Vanessa Vanessa Freedman Subject Liaison Librarian: Hebrew & Jewish Studies and Information Studies UCL Library Services University College London Gower Street London WC1E 6BT Tel (Mon, Thu, Fri): +44 (0)20 7679 2598<tel:+44%2020%207679%202598> (Internal ext. 32598) Tel (Tue, Wed): +44 (0)20 7679 4405<tel:+44%2020%207679%204405> (Internal ext. 34405) Fax: +44 (0) 20 7679 7373<tel:+44%2020%207679%207373> E-mail: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Twitter: @UCLHJSLibrary @vrfreedman Website: www.ucl.ac.uk/library<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ucl.ac.uk_library&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=cX-JfhQlUwhLVWvvsRM8LpRtWoJnc-1xOAkRHgoNXs0&m=Yq03sEwFiLkQcPqmuNfJcAbQbJB4H8l0cQrqmkpmtwE&s=N2i3H4YzmIxEQme4pheeTnibq-6D0_XkHVY56D8bbj8&e=> **Please remember the environment and only print this if necessary** From: Heb-naco [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Shinohara, Jasmin Sent: 06 July 2017 16:28 To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh I don’t think that formulation is clear, Jerry Anne. Typically, where vowels are supplied, it is to indicate whether the Name should be pronounced as Ado-nai or as Elokim. To say “it should be Romanized with the vowels as given in the source” may imply using the YHṾH consonants with the addition of the supplied vowels, but those consonants are not (typically) intended to be pronounced. I think if the vocalization is given, that form (Ado-nai or Elokim) should be in the 245 with the addition of YHṾH in the 246. My half cent. Jasmin From: Heb-naco [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dickel, Geraldine Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2017 11:17 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh Good question. If the vowels are supplied should the Tetragrammaton be Romanized with the vowels? Should the HCM say: The unvocalized Tetragrammaton, יהוה, should be Romanized YHṾH. If the Tetragrammaton is vocalized it should be Romanized with the vowels as given in the source.” Thoughts? Best, Jerry Anne From: Robert M. TALBOTT [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2017 10:58 AM To: Dickel, Geraldine <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh Well, it's been lost in the dust up, but what about cases where vowels are supplied? Or is the Tetragrammaton always YHVH in all instances, euphemistic added entries not with standing? On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Dickel, Geraldine <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I have added: “The Tetragrammaton, יהוה, should be Romanized YHṾH.” to page 32 of the HCM under Names of the Divinity. Jasmin has also added it to the Romanization FAQ document on the AJL RAS Cataloging wiki. Thank you, Jerry Anne From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+geraldine.dickel<mailto:heb-naco-bounces%2Bgeraldine.dickel>[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Robert M. TALBOTT Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2017 5:31 PM To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh Thanks folks. Is there any chance we could get a transliteration advisory covering this included in the HCM? 'Twould be quite handy for those few times it actually happens. B On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Judith Zupnick <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I agree with Joan. ________________________________ From: Heb-naco <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Joan Biella <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2017 1:39 PM To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh I agree with Aaron, and would advocate for YHVH (subscript dot under V) as the least controversial way to deal with this situation. Joan On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Kuperman, Aaron <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Assuming there are no nekudot, would it not be presumptuous for a cataloger to claim to know how it would be pronounced. Aaron Kuperman, LC Law Cataloging Section. This is not an official communication from my employer From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+akup<mailto:heb-naco-bounces%2Bakup>[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Robert M. TALBOTT Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2017 3:49 PM To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel Subject: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh Hi folks: I'm cataloging a book right now that has the tetragrammaton in the title. 1) YHVH? This is what the record has 2) Yehovah? My preference 3) Yahveh? As good as any other 4) Or should we use a euphemism,e.g ha-Shem? I'm not invested in this one and am agnostic as to the outcome, but which form is preferred? The euphemism 'ha-Shem" and "Adonai" are already slotted in the record as added title entries. B -- Bob Talbott Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger UC Berkeley 250 Moffitt Berkeley, CA 94720 I'm just mad about Saffron _______________________________________________ Heb-naco mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.osu.edu_mailman_listinfo_heb-2Dnaco&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=cX-JfhQlUwhLVWvvsRM8LpRtWoJnc-1xOAkRHgoNXs0&m=8Bhpkp2UFGvtGlCIxFR2NMgooC9g5DAB6NZFqQpIiqI&s=bvQ43k4dfpfsvm3wGujVC6kPUOR8YKBlAmzlglfsMs8&e=> _______________________________________________ Heb-naco mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.osu.edu_mailman_listinfo_heb-2Dnaco&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=cX-JfhQlUwhLVWvvsRM8LpRtWoJnc-1xOAkRHgoNXs0&m=8Bhpkp2UFGvtGlCIxFR2NMgooC9g5DAB6NZFqQpIiqI&s=bvQ43k4dfpfsvm3wGujVC6kPUOR8YKBlAmzlglfsMs8&e=> -- Bob Talbott Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger UC Berkeley 250 Moffitt Berkeley, CA 94720 I'm just mad about Saffron -- Bob Talbott Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger UC Berkeley 250 Moffitt Berkeley, CA 94720 I'm just mad about Saffron _______________________________________________ Heb-naco mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.osu.edu_mailman_listinfo_heb-2Dnaco&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=cX-JfhQlUwhLVWvvsRM8LpRtWoJnc-1xOAkRHgoNXs0&m=Yq03sEwFiLkQcPqmuNfJcAbQbJB4H8l0cQrqmkpmtwE&s=B5AKy3Boa85HYPZHJjgctPunf3Qx2CELEZdO_fWveAg&e=>
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