Greetings, Royce, and the others that you are working with. On Sat, 2009-05-16 at 04:17 +0000, Lance Culp wrote: > Percival wrote to > > > If you aren't looking for yourself, than whatever solution you might > find, will probably not suit your intended audience. Because if you > don't plan on using it, living it, and testing it, before saying to > someone else "this works" ... well ... I, for one, would not trust > your > advice. The Hexayurt folks have done that, and their design > improvements come from that." > > > > Hello Percival,
> My goodness you won’t take my advice???????????? Aaaaaaaaa geeeeeeee > bitter disappointments are never ending!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I had such > high hopes!!!!!!!!! We are extra-ordinary folks here, we might take your advice. But the folks you are theoretically setting up for, are the audience, I have found, on the whole, does not take advice well, nor understand the seriousness of a circumstance, until they are plunged into it, headlong. I have a large number of friends. Some who have prepared various contingencies in their world, and others, who either disbelieve that disaster would strike that they could prepare for, or that when disaster struck, no matter what they prepared wouldn't be right/enough, so why bother wasting resources on it. Oh, and btw, I work in the "Disaster recovery" field, so convincing folks about how to prepare for various disasters is often what I spend my days doing. > My advice is free! And worth every penny I paid for it? *grin* > How in the world might I change your mind????????? Well ... show me that the large part of the country actually thinks about what might happen to them in the future, more than, say 5 years from now? That they actually have, say, 11 gallons of good water per person put aside, and the stock rotated through so it doesn't get stale, for those times that City Water might break down/become contaminated/have the pipes being flushed, or the like. Or show me that the greater percentage of people actually pace the hall, or count doors from them to the emergency exit in the hotel they are staying in, for the weekend. Or, simply, if they know if their emergency flashlights are charged/have fresh batteries, and where they are. > You may be too young to remember, but the astronauts who landed their > module on the moon back in 1969 had never done it before. They > depended upon simulation. No, they depended on lots of hard work, and effort put on by many people before them, testing out, and using every bit of equipment, under the harshest conditions possible, here on earth. They had, personally, worked with every technique, and trained so they knew what each sound, each shift, and each subtle change in their interaction meant. I would have been more impressed, had you talked about the first person to go weightless (and survive) or the astronauts who managed to land the very damaged Apollo mission (13) for innovating under pressure. But again, they are well-trained individuals, sought for their ability to improvise under difficult circumstances. When we talk about disaster relief and the set-up of such things, we start with a trained team, and hope that, as the refugees manage to get more and more on their feet, some of the less-shell-shocked ones can help expand the crews setting up the hexayurt housing, or the like. We don't expect the folks fleeing the tidal wave/fire/hurricane/et al to be able to construct their own, without help, and aid first. > Still not convinced?????????????? Oh well……………………….. Not even close. > Maybe my confidence is misplaced, but I very comfortable with tools, > so I’m going to bet that I can put a pretty good yurt together, > especially since I have the advantage of talking with folks such as > yourself to keep me from blundering too badly. Well, I expect you to be able to, for several reason. 1) you are doing research, before you just need to create one, on the spur of the moment, so you are comfortable with the tech first. 2) You are actually handy with tools, as opposed to the average suburbanite, who might be able to change their oil without killing themselves. 3) You have had experience in living in the field, and understand what "shelter" connotes, and where the problems with a fancy cover over a dirt hole might be, so you could compensate for them, or at least, shore them up to the best of your ability, before they turn around and bite you. And, 4) From the way you write, it sounds like you would take a dry run, or two before that hour of need is, so you might have the right equipment, at the right time, or know what you are missing and how to scrounge it properly, when you needed to. > Having spent a lot of time in the woods, both as a civilian and > soldier—I’m a veteran of the Vietnam War-- I’m comfortable with the > challenges presented by extreme conditions. I think that survival > under a harsh environment requires a kind of general education that > allows one to adapt to ever changing circumstances. Indeed, as I get the sense from your writing. But, as you said, you aren't doing this for you, but for the average individual, who, if the commuter bus doesn't come, their only option is waiting for the next commuter bus ... > As an avocation, I’m working with a number of friends in my community > to help others develop various skills that we think will hold them in > good stead in times of emergency. All of us have experience with > so-called primitive living. I don’t claim to be an expert on yurts or > teepees, but I have spent a lot of time erecting tarp shelters and > then sleeping under them. And I can put up a pretty wickiup. Anyway, I > will struggle along as best I can and try, whenever possible, to lend > a hand to others. You might want to take a look at this book: http://www.amazon.com/Tipis-Yurts-Authentic-Circular-Shelters/dp/0937274887 (I got my copy from the library) It's excellent for, I think, what you are looking for. http://www.coloradoyurt.com/tipis might also answer a few questions for you, as well. > Anyway, thank you for your insights, which I consider, on balance, to > be very good. Thank you. We, here do try. > > > Royce Percival > > Royce replies: > > > > > Subject: [hexayurt] Re: Heating a hexayurt > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:46:48 -0400 > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 17:31 -0700, lance95 wrote: > > > Thanks to all who have responded. > > > > > > Obviously, if one has sufficient resources, one can simply buy a > fully > > > equipped retreat that is complete with provisions. > > > > Were you to do that, I'd recommend an underground retreat, with a > very > > small, defensible top-side foot-print, seal-able, and with > sufficient > > truck-garden to help the air, and give you food. Power from a > sterling > > engine, and geo-thermal boost to heating/cooling, water purification > > plant, and perhaps a loose herd, and some wild-farming on top. But > > that's just me. > > > > > But I’m choosing to focus upon an average, North American citizen > who > > > may have to abandon his or her home in the middle of the night-- > > > possibly with children and pets. In gentle climates, one needs > little > > > more than a tarp and a wool blanket for protection against the > > > elements. > > > > Actually, with a decent sized, and thickness tarp, and wool blanket, > and > > some sticks, that is all you need to protect yourself from the > elements. > > > > > But when the temperatures drop and the snow begins to fly, a good > warm > > > shelter is of paramount importance. This is especially true for > the > > > very young and old, along with those who are either sick or > injured. > > > The northern latitudes can be very cruel in the winter. > > > > It can be, but, to add foreshadowing, I'll point out that a number > of > > folks used to make their lives the way you are describing, without > much > > of a problem. > > > > > The hexayurt has a lot going for it, but the basic units have to > be > > > heated in the winter. And at this juncture, I’m not sure how to do > > > that. > > > > The hesayurts as currently designed, are not necessarily as portable > as > > you are imagining. The 4x8 sheets are somewhat prone to damage, when > > they aren't in the yurt configuration, well taped. Dragging, or > driving > > them around makes them both impact and edge-vulnerable. > > > > > That causes me to, once again, look at yurts/ gers. I’m speaking > of > > > the convention kinds. Some nice ones can be bought from a number > of > > > sources. And they are both beautiful and functional—often complete > > > with electricity, plumbing and woodstove. > > > > Yes, very useful, but, perhaps, not as portable as you would like. > > Granted, my 12' in diameter one fits nicely on a roof-rack, but it > is, > > indeed, all pre-built, so I don't need to look for anything except > for > > gas outside of my own resources. > > > > > But those kinds of yurts probably aren’t going to be an option for > the > > > person who must evacuate in the middle of the night. So I’m > looking > > > for something that can be built with easily obtainable materials— > such > > > as odds and ends from local hardware stores, or salvaged from > > > demolished buildings. One key part you need when building a yurt > is a > > > good “roof ring.” > > > > Indeed, at this juncture, I'd delight in pointing out another > structure > > that you should be looking at. That of a TeePee. It is made of said > > tarp (preferably canvas) and wool (the liner) and held up by either > > poles you pull from wrecked buildings, or harvest from trees, and a > bit > > of rope. You have to make your tarp and your liner special, but ... > > they don't have to be that big and bulky, and you can harvest the > poles > > from wherever you end up, most likely. The Native Americans lived in > > them, in the harshest New England winters that I know of, and have > read > > of others in the northern mid-west. Some of the Aluet tribes still > live > > in them in the Canadian Nonavit territory, which is quite harsh > winter > > conditions. > > > > > One of the major challenges is designing a “roof ring” that can > easily > > > be made from common materials. At one time, I had a decent home > > > workshop that featured a good table-saw, circular saw, router and > > > drill press. With those tools, I was able to do some pretty fancy > > > work. Certainly, building a good, “roof ring” would have been a > simple > > > job. > > > > The roof ring, and the edge connector are the most important parts > of > > the ger, and they are not something simple or necessarily easily > > garnered in an urban or even suburban wasteland. Even the Khana is > > difficult to reproduce at a moment's notice. Having one, and having > it > > ready, if you need to evacuate, due to imminent weather, or fire > does > > make it possible, and even, somewhat, easy. Of course, setting up a > ger > > is a specialized skill, and one that has to be done by more than one > > able-bodied person. On the other hand, I've seen TeePees put up by > one, > > very pregnant woman, on her own. (We offered to help her, as soon as > > our ger was set up, but she, alone got the TeePee up and in place, > by > > herself, without straining, before we were done with our ger setup. > > > > > Now I have nothing but a couple of hand saws, a small saber saw > and a > > > portable drill. Most of the roof rings I have seen can’t be > created as > > > quickly and as easily as I would like. Yes……………personally, I could > > > build one even with my paltry selection of tools, but I have the > > > advantage of a lot of experience. > > > > You would need a hand-saw, and maybe a hammer (to break away the > urban > > pieces that you would need to break away, to get at what you would > need > > for your spars) and some rope, once you have sewn the tarp and liner > > into the right shapes. (Or bought them. They are not that expensive. > > Matter of fact, I've seen some kids video-game budget to be larger > than > > the cost of a pre-made set.) Just have them in a (or two, depending > on > > who is going to carry them) backpack by the door, on a shelf, along > with > > potable water, your camp-stove, some spare clothing, spare foot-gear > and > > cash, and you can pretty much just grab it and go in an emergency. > Even > > if the roads are closed, you can go on foot. > > > > > A good friend of mine is endeavoring to design a new sort of “roof > > > ring”, we shall see what he comes up with. > > > > Many designs have been made over time. Some have failed > spectacularly, > > others have become more and more commonly adopted, depending. > > > > > Many of the experienced yurt people I have talked to concede that > > > there’s a problem; unfortunately, they are vague about possible > > > solutions. > > > > It's not a problem, it's a function of the structure. If you choose > > that structure, that is part of the function. If you choose, say, a > > hexayurt structure, you have to deal with the taping/untaping. It's > one > > of the functions of the structure. A TeePee has other functional > > limits. For example, it's really hard to have connected TeePees, > unless > > you are building on a platform, or burrowing under ground. Every > > structure contains the choices you make. I wouldn't for example want > to > > end up in a desert, and expecting to scrounge the poles. > > > > > Please don’t misunderstand, I’m not looking for a personal > solution. I > > > have the time and resources to either buy or rent what I need to > build > > > a roof ring. Hell………….I can afford to buy a complete kit. That’s > not > > > the issue. What I want to do is to come up with solutions for > others. > > > > If you aren't looking for yourself, than whatever solution you might > > find, will probably not suit your intended audience. Because if you > > don't plan on using it, living it, and testing it, before saying to > > someone else "this works" ... well ... I, for one, would not trust > your > > advice. The Hexayurt folks have done that, and their design > > improvements come from that. > > > > > As a final note, keep in mind that those who don’t own property > might > > > have to move their yurt/ger frequently. > > > > Again, it's much easier to move a TeePee than a ger, or a Hexayurt. > > > > > Anyway, there are a lot of issues to confront. > > > > Indeed. > > > > > Sincerely, > > > Royce > > > > Percival > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hexayurt" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
