Good, good, data driven is what we like. Splendid, Bill. It's worth calling your local Dow and asking for a Thermax HD sample pack. They send me about two dozen squares of the stuff. I don't have it any more, but it's really worth taking a look at.
In our application I think you would be very happy with it. Vinay On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Bill Wiltschko <[email protected]> wrote: > Vinay, you are correct, but I had a different point I wasn't clear > about. > > Let's use data, from the ASTM E84 test method. > > Thermax HD > Flame spread 20 > Smoke 80 > > Thermax > Flame spread 25 > Smoke <450 > > Tuff-R > Flame spread 75 > Smoke 450 > > Mineral and Fiber board > Flame spread 0 > Smoke 5 > > Your statements imply that Thermax HD is, to use my phrase, bomb proof. > It is not. For max fire resistance we would need concrete or steel. I > use Thermax non-HD, so I cannot claim I have a fire-resistant structure, > although I could use the fig leaf that it is better than Tuff-R. The > point is, nothing is totally fire resistant for the application: > temporary structures that are easily transported. THERE IS FIRE RISK ON > THE PLAYA. I choose to take that risk with my eyes open. I also have a > fire extinguisher and a transceiver tuned to the MURS 911 frequency used > at BM. > > Bill > >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [hexayurt] Re: Hexayurt/Pentayurt Hexacomb metal truss etc >> From: Vinay <[email protected]> >> Date: Wed, February 10, 2010 12:55 am >> To: [email protected] >> >> >> Bill, last time I checked, Thermax HD had a proper fire rating for >> exposed use - i.e. Thermax HD naked to the air - while Tuff-R etc are >> only rated for use behind sheetrock. >> >> It really does make a substantial difference to flame spread etc. The >> fire test standards for building materials are rigorous, and we ignore >> them at our peril. >> >> Vinay >> >> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 2:46 AM, Bill Wiltschko <[email protected]> wrote: >> > I hate to disagree with the founder, but Thermax HD is not significantly >> > more fire-resistant than other foam panels. I researched the subject >> > before I bought my Thermax (non-HD) panels. The problem is, if the foil >> > is breached anywhere (edges, windows, rips and tears, holes for wires, >> > air, etc) the foam is vulnerable. And the foil WILL be breached. >> > Second, the foil isn't impregnable, as I learned when I used a heat gun >> > to remove the tape. If I remember correctly (please post corrections), >> > Thermax HD's fire rating is 25, while some foam panels are higher. The >> > standard is a wood panel at 100. Problem is, 25 isn't that good. >> > >> > Notice I said I bought the panels anyway. I've set my HY up at BM two >> > years. First, the HD version of Thermax isn't available anywhere. Two, >> > having worked in 911 dispatch for the last ten years, I haven't heard of >> > a tent fire, although I wouldn't be surprised if we've had some. Three, >> > Black Rock City has more fire people per capita than any city or town in >> > the US, with two or more large tankers and two or more smaller trucks on >> > duty 24/7. While it's true our HY's aren't bomb-proof, they're good >> > enough for the application and situation. >> > >> > YMMV >> > >> > Bill >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> >> Subject: Re: [hexayurt] Re: Hexayurt/Pentayurt Hexacomb metal truss etc >> >> From: Vinay <[email protected]> >> >> Date: Tue, February 09, 2010 12:42 pm >> >> To: [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> >> Two words: THERMAX HD. >> >> >> >> Fire rated. >> >> >> >> Tough as nails. >> >> >> >> Basically the common polyiso material, but with a coke-can thickness >> >> of metal on both sides. >> >> >> >> Yes, I know Dow are not being helpful, but getting this material >> >> moving - $20 a sheet or something - is absolutely the way to put >> >> effort and energy if people want the best possible hexayurts this >> >> Burning Man. >> >> >> >> Vinay >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Brian <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > On Feb 9, 1:54 pm, Chris Phoenix <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Why are space blankets a no-no? >> >> > >> >> > Because they're made of mylar and mylar, being mainly a plastic, >> >> > burns. >> >> > The MSDS is here: >> >> > http://msds.dupont.com/msds/pdfs/EN/PEN_09004a2f8002e2ed.pdf >> >> > >> >> > While not exactly "ka-blooey" kind of burns, it is made of polyester >> >> > and will melt and sputter and make nasty gasses which you do not want >> >> > to be breathing in. >> >> > >> >> >> > 7. What about pentayurts? Seems more stable, no? >> >> > >> >> > From my models, the roofs are significantly more stable, but may need >> >> > to be secured to the ground in use if made from light materials. The >> >> > roof of a Pentayurt *may* need additional support to bear heavier snow >> >> > loads, but overall seems extremely solid. >> >> > >> >> > NB: This is all from a model 1/12 scale. I have not yet tried >> >> > building one full sized. Yet. >> >> > >> >> >> > basically I suggest we take all the recent discussions on materials, >> >> >> > supplies, designs, windows, air conditioners, guywires, etc, and work >> >> >> > on an updated faq. >> >> > >> >> > Excellent idea. >> >> > >> >> > I'd also like to propose some additions to the FAQ/Hexayurt site on >> >> > Appropedia: >> >> > 1. A Consolidated "instruction sheet" in PDF format which puts all the >> >> > info that is up there into a brief (1-3 pp) instruction sheet. >> >> > 2. A label for completed Hexayurts similar to >> >> > http://www.appropedia.org/File:HYPanel2pic.PNG >> >> > but incorporating a "No Flames" sign. >> >> > Basically, with 1 & 2, I'm thinking about a small, pictorial info >> >> > packet which can be sent with building materials to show people how to >> >> > build the structures they need and including a sign people can post on >> >> > the entrance of their yurt. >> >> > >> >> > Just a thought. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Brian >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> > Groups "hexayurt" group. >> >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> > [email protected]. >> >> > For more options, visit this group at >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt?hl=en. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Vinay Gupta >> >> Free Science and Engineering in the Global Public Interest >> >> >> >> http://guptaoption.com/map - social project connection map >> >> >> >> http://hexayurt.com - free/open next generation human sheltering >> >> http://hexayurt.com/plan - the whole systems, big picture vision >> >> >> >> http://bit.ly/flucode - please follow the Flu Code >> >> if you are in a flu-effected area. It protects us all. >> >> >> >> Gizmo Project VOIP : (USA) 775-743-1851 >> >> Skype/Gizmo/Gtalk/AIM: hexayurt >> >> Twitter: @hexayurt http://twitter.com/hexayurt >> >> UK Cell : +44 (0) 795 425 3533 / USA VOIP (+1) 775-743-1851 >> >> >> >> "If it doesn't fit, force it." >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> >> "hexayurt" group. >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> [email protected]. >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt?hl=en. >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> > "hexayurt" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > [email protected]. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt?hl=en. >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Vinay Gupta >> Free Science and Engineering in the Global Public Interest >> >> http://guptaoption.com/map - social project connection map >> >> http://hexayurt.com - free/open next generation human sheltering >> http://hexayurt.com/plan - the whole systems, big picture vision >> >> http://bit.ly/flucode - please follow the Flu Code >> if you are in a flu-effected area. It protects us all. >> >> Gizmo Project VOIP : (USA) 775-743-1851 >> Skype/Gizmo/Gtalk/AIM: hexayurt >> Twitter: @hexayurt http://twitter.com/hexayurt >> UK Cell : +44 (0) 795 425 3533 / USA VOIP (+1) 775-743-1851 >> >> "If it doesn't fit, force it." >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "hexayurt" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "hexayurt" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt?hl=en. > > -- Vinay Gupta Free Science and Engineering in the Global Public Interest http://guptaoption.com/map - social project connection map http://hexayurt.com - free/open next generation human sheltering http://hexayurt.com/plan - the whole systems, big picture vision http://bit.ly/flucode - please follow the Flu Code if you are in a flu-effected area. It protects us all. Gizmo Project VOIP : (USA) 775-743-1851 Skype/Gizmo/Gtalk/AIM: hexayurt Twitter: @hexayurt http://twitter.com/hexayurt UK Cell : +44 (0) 795 425 3533 / USA VOIP (+1) 775-743-1851 "If it doesn't fit, force it." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hexayurt" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt?hl=en.
