Greetings unto Melissa and the list,
I agree with your argument to a point...
"I don't think that anyone has made a violin kit that
can be successfully made by someone who has never
played a violin before. I don't think anyone builds a
bicycle without first learning how to ride a bicycle
built by someone else. Why should hg be any different?"
I know of instrument makers who have never played a day in their life yet
produce lovely, fully functional instruments. Being able to play is not a
requirement for making an instrument, although it would certainly be a great
boon to the effort. The same could be said for your argument about the
bicycle. It would be valid argument if I had never seen a bicycle in person
and was trying to create one from scratch with few or no references. The end
result would most certainly be a miserable failure. But, if I was armed a
great deal of research before I started and a valid set of plans, or even
better a well designed kit made by a professional bicycle builder, I could
more than likely create a functional bicycle. I certainly would not expect to
win the Tour De France on it, but it would more than likely function well
enough for every day use.
If the making of a hg by a novice had never happened, I would not be making
this argument. I would willingly acquiesce to the wisdom of the naysayers.
But it has happened, numerous times, with varying degrees of success, as many
of the websites and members of this list can attest to. This is how , by their
own admission, many hg builders got started. I am not the first and most
certainly will not be the last to attempt to make a functional hg. It just
seems to me a monumental waste of research , effort, time and money to
reinvent the wheel (in this case a rosined one) every single time a novice
wants to make a hg. I know that making a hurdy gurdy is a momentous task not
to be under taken by most. Yet, the demand for a good kit and/or building
plans is obviously there. It truly surprises me that someone with the
knowledge and experience has not stepped up to the challenge and created a
good set of plans or a truly functional kit to aid those adventurous few
that wish to challenge themselves.
It seems the only options advocated to most aspiring hg enthusiasts is to
buy a professional grade hg (which ,while well worth the money, is cost
prohibitive to most people, especially when just starting), to seek out the
secret enclaves of hg players that can certainly be found in most every
American town and apprentice to them, or sit on the sidelines and be forced to
watch as the hg parade pass them by.
Many before me have decided to take the road less traveled by trying to
make their own hg. I hope to join them. I do not think it unrealistic to hope
that some experienced traveler will offer directions to help get these hardy
few where they are going with a minimal number of detours and bumps in the road.
Just my humble opinion, offered with respect to all who share this list.
Sincerely,
William Gull
Melissa Kacalanos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
William and all,
I haven't read all of the responses to this, but
here's my response to your question
> Is there any particular reason why no one has
> produced hurdy gurdy plans or kits of a decent
> quality to facilitate the making of a first
> intermediate hurdy gurdy by a novice?
I don't think that anyone has made a violin kit that
can be successfully made by someone who has never
played a violin before. I don't think anyone builds a
bicycle without first learning how to ride a bicycle
built by someone else. Why should hg be any different?
If you've never played a hg before, you don't know
exactly what you're aiming for. Experience in how a
good hg is supposed to function would be enormously
helpful in building one.
Melissa
www.melissatheloud.com
--- William Gull wrote:
> Thanks for the timely response to my post!!! I am
> jointly working on this project with a mechanical
> engineer with a great deal of wood working
> experience so I have no doubt that we could piece
> together something on our own, over time based on
> our on going research. I just do not see the need
> to reinvent the wheel time and time again. It would
> seem to me that those who were passionate about
> hurdy gurdies would try and help others who are
> starting out by helping them avoid the early
> mistakes and setbacks they went through. I believe
> that knowledge not shared is wasted knowledge.
> Is there any particular reason why no one has
> produced hurdy gurdy plans or kits of a decent
> quality to facilitate the making of a first
> intermediate hurdy gurdy by a novice? It seems to
> me that there is a demand for something like this
> since so many on this list and on other websites all
> admit had their start by attempting to make their
> own hurdy gurdy.
> I know making a hurdy gurdy is a huge
> undertaking and most certainly not for everyone to
> try. I often hear repeated on many hurdy gurdy
> websites and lists the dire warning that you should
> not encourage a novice to attempt their first hurdy
> gurdy for it is sure to end in dismal failure. This
> poor end result will surely drive them away from
> such a wonderful instrument forever. Instead of
> trying to scare everyone away from trying in the
> first place, why hasn't someone tried helping by
> creating a functional set of plans or a kit that
> will produce, while not a professional grade
> instrument, something of an intermediate quality
> that will keep them coming back for more?
> I do hand engraving of metals, which is another
> passion of mine. It is a difficult art to learn and
> a life time to master. Most who attempt to learn
> the art do not follow through. They quit long
> before they reach even a novice level. Hand
> engraving is a dying art in this age of machine
> reproduction. Since it is a passion, I want the art
> to survive. So, I teach any and all who want to
> learn. Will most of my students follow through and
> pursue engraving? Probably not. But by removing
> the trial and error aspects of the learning curve
> and by demystifying many of the "tricks of the
> trade" almost all walk away with a positive learning
> experience. All take away with them a strong sense
> of accomplishment. The small percentage who wish to
> pursue the art further will have a solid foundation
> to work from as they journey down that road. As I
> said before, knowledge that is not shared is in the
> end, wasted knowledge.
> Just my two cents worth.
> Thank you for the many positive, helpful and
> encouraging responses!!!!
>
> -William Gull
>
>
>
> Juan Wijngaard and Sharon Berman
> wrote:
> I agree with Chris, it is entirely possible
> to build a working hurdy gurdy without plans if you
> want it bad enough, I did so over 30 years ago when
> information was even harder to come by than it is
> today, I had no woodworking skills and bought or
> borrowed tools as I needed them. I ended up with a
> pretty unique diatonic creation, made out of mostly
> second hand furniture but it looked like a hurdy
> gurdy and, maybe more by luck than judgement, it
> sounded like one too. Like Chris, I learned an awful
> lot in the process and had no qualms about getting
> in there with a chisel or knife to fix things when
> they went wrong or to add improvements. It was a fun
> thing to do. Just be prepared to keep going, to
> quote Roy Trotter: "Making a hurdy gurdy is like
> eating peanuts, you can't stop at one." By the way,
> the last HG I made was a couple of years ago, again
> without plans other than plotting out the keyboard,
> it was for my son who was three at the time, the
> body was made from a
> toy wooden boat. It works.
> Juan
>
>
>
>
> I am going to give a slightly different
> perspective to this issue, one I have given before.
> I am in the minority here, as I consider myself an
> amateur player of several instruments, not a
> professional, and while I enjoy getting better, I
> also enjoy everything else that has to do with the
> older instruments - the lore, the construction, the
> materials and techniques, thedesign and aesthetics,
> the personalizations and the integration of new
> technologies into the instruments. And I like to
> learn by doing, and I like to build things as a tool
> to learn. I built my first Sinphone (medieval
> box predecessor to a true hurdy gurdy) without
> plans, without a model to go by, with only some
> basic knowledge of structures, a whole lot of tool
> knowledge (and a bunch of tools) and 1 piece of
> information - 354mm. The vibrating string length.
> It is amazing what you can do with just that one
> piece of information. I used woods I knew to be
> acceptable from some of my previous
> instrument experiments. I experimented, and with
> some work I came up with an instrument that I enjoy
> playing and some folks enjoy listening to. I play a
> few French tunes, and I do the unthinkable - I play
> a bunch of bagpipe standards, things like 'The
> Minstrel Bard" and "Amazing Grace", and I play
> harmony parts on some old English folk songs and I
> even have my own cover of "Smoke on the Water". In
> other words, I do not fall into the category that
> most folks here fall into - students and performers
> of traditional Hurdy Gurdy. So while a
> professional would probably find my first instrument
> a dismal failure, I find it a spectacular success.
> I learned so much from that instument that I never
> would have learned by reading about or looking at
> someone else's work. And the second instrument I
> built, which was really just a technology tester for
> what will be a much nicer, late medieval piece of my
> own design, turned out better by leaps. So if my
> goal was to acquire an
> instrument on the level of Wolfgang or Cali and
> Alden's offerings, I failed miserably. But I
> acquired in my experiment so much more. I also
> have to say that I do not get discouraged. I will
> not let the moderate quality and excessive
> finickiness of my first instrument put me off from
> continuing to study and develop my talents, and one
> day I would like to be able to play proficiently
> some of the music I have seen videos for from OTW,
> but that will come and I have patience. I had
> made plans to be at OTW this year, but in a real
> surprise circumstance, my wife and I discovered we
> are going to have another baby in Spetember
> sometime, so I have to put that trip on hold for yet
> another year. But hopefully next year, if nothing
> major gets in the way, I will be bringing my current
> project and letting some of the experts critique it
> - that is how I like to learn and how I like to
> 'network'. And maybe someone more proficient than I
> will help me find the instrument's voice.
> So if you are the unique kind of individual
> that likes the ride as much as the destination, and
> you don't consider failures while learning to be
> anything but successes in disguies, then I
> whole-heartedly suggest cutting wood, making
> mistakes, building a few 'cats with digestive tract
> problems', having some leughs, and learning a ton in
> the process. If you like to figure things out
> yourself, it is possible. There are several
> reasonable plans, and a few books with plans and
> construction articles. You can, if you have hand
> skills and a technical mind, work through the
> problems and build something that will be, at least
> to you, a wonderful thing. But if you are mainly
> a performer, mostly interested in playing a really
> nice instrument, then I suggest just buying one.
> There are not, on the market today, any kits that
> will yield right from the box an instrument of the
> caliber any of the professional HG luthiers are
> building today. Chris
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
> On 5/26/2008 at 10:53 PM William Gull wrote:
> Greetings unto the list!!!!!! My name William
> Gull and I reside in Nevada, Iowa and I am a first
> time poster to this list.. I am a silversmith and
> hand engraver who does historical reenactments for
> both recreation and and as a market for my hand
> work. It was through my love of both medieval and
> 18Th century music that I was introduced to the
> wonders of the hurdy gurdy. Since then it has
> been an ever growing passion to learn to play one.
> First things first, before learning to play I
> need to find an instrument to play on. Being a
> hands on sort of person, I have decided I would like
> to try building one. I know this will be a definite
> challenge, but it is one I am willing to undertake.
> Like any new project I undertake, I am starting by
> doing research and gathering as much information as
> I can. There in lies the problem. While I am
> slowly collecting and reading as many books on all
> aspects of the hurdy gurdy as I can get my hands on,
> there seems to
> be almost no information on the quality of the
> hurdy gurdy plans and kits available. Does anyone
> on this list have any recommendations or opinions on
> the commercially available kits and building
> plans??? What would you recommend for the beginner
> as far as must have books? I appreciate any and
> all input that will get me closer to my goal of
> learning the hurdy gurdy!!!! In a shared hurdy
> gurdy passion, William
>
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