People don't produce a 'kit' for a professional quality instrument for one very
important reason - you cannot mass produce the pieces for an instrument like
this, it requires not only a knowledge of how to build a thing with wood and
metal, but once you have it built, if you do not know how to make adjustments
and do some important setup during the building process, you build into the
instrument problems that cannot be fixed without tearing the thing apart,
causing more problems.
This is not like a guitar that can be set up after it is built and still sound
good. You need to know a lot about it before you can build a good instrument.
One thing you will find in common with those who have built first instruments
as amateurs on this list - they are satisfied themselves with their work, but
they will for the most part admit that their first tries were less than
professional quality in performance, no matter how nice in appearance. And
even the professionals will relate horror stories about the kits out there -
and some of them are mechanically pretty nice, but there is no way to create an
instrument of any real value from a bunch of die-cut and mass produced parts.
I can tell you from my experience that I might have saved some dollars, but if
you figure in my time, I didn't save a penny building my first instrument, and
for the total invested, I could have bought a much finer instrument and been
farther along in playing. But that was not my goal, and understand that I am
in a minority - I set off not to have a good gurdy to play, but to learn what
makes a gurdy work by doing. And in that I am in a very small minority - most
people who want a kit or fully detailed, foolproof plans simply want a more
economical way of getting a good instrument. And that is hard to do.
And also remember, in this industry there are very few hobbyist builders
producing a quantity of instruments cheap - most of the builders are
professional builders. This is one of the most demanding lutherie endeavors,
those who are professionals have usually learned over years, and gotten better
by acquiring and studying instruments that have cost much, and equipped a shop
with tools and materials that are very expensive. There is a limited market
for gurdies, it is not like there is demand that far exceeds the current
supply. It makes no sense financially for any of these builders to provide a
kit that could produce an instument equal in quality to their own handwork for
a fraction of the cost, even if they could. Gurdy building has to be a tough
living, and if you look in the archives of this list even the pros have
problems and instruments don't end up right sometimes and they have to be
responsible. Asking them to sacrifice their living so that someone else might
have a cheaper go at it isn't really fair.
I have found this list to be firendly and professional, and I have found that
if I ask the right questions, I will get limited but sufficient and accurate
answers, even from those who are trying to protect their livelihood. The
information and knowledge is shared, but in a limited way. This is not just a
bunch of hobbyists and tinkerers, the people who are experts here use their
knowledge to put food on the table, it is not free or public domain and cannot
be expected to be. I have been given a lot of help here, sometimes
begrudgingly, but it has been given. But I have had to do what so many of them
have done - start with something that isn't optimal, but teaches me what I need
to learn, then go out and study every website, ask every owner, study every
instrument I can find, figure out some answers, build again and test out the
theories, discard what doesn't work and try again, study more, repeat ad
nauseum.
As much as I love the idea of building, I cannot see any way that you can just
pick up a box of parts and assemble a performance quality instrument on the
first try, and maybe perhaps not even on the second, and by the third try you
already exceed by far the cost of a reasonable professional performance
instrument. So unless your passion is for building as much as or more than
playing, building is not an economical answer for a novice gurdyist. It has
been said that 'building gurdies is like eating potato chips, you can't have
just one' - and I agree, but only if you love building. And if you do, then
there is little chance you will buy a professional instrument anyway, you will
end up doing what tthe pros did to teach themselves, and after a bunch of
instruments you too will be 'professional grade'. But not right off the bat.
Just my $.02 worth
Chris
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 5/27/2008 at 2:42 PM William Gull wrote:
Thanks for the timely response to my post!!! I am jointly working on this
project with a mechanical engineer with a great deal of wood working experience
so I have no doubt that we could piece together something on our own, over time
based on our on going research. I just do not see the need to reinvent the
wheel time and time again. It would seem to me that those who were passionate
about hurdy gurdies would try and help others who are starting out by helping
them avoid the early mistakes and setbacks they went through. I believe that
knowledge not shared is wasted knowledge.
Is there any particular reason why no one has produced hurdy gurdy plans or
kits of a decent quality to facilitate the making of a first intermediate hurdy
gurdy by a novice? It seems to me that there is a demand for something like
this since so many on this list and on other websites all admit had their start
by attempting to make their own hurdy gurdy.
I know making a hurdy gurdy is a huge undertaking and most certainly not
for everyone to try. I often hear repeated on many hurdy gurdy websites and
lists the dire warning that you should not encourage a novice to attempt their
first hurdy gurdy for it is sure to end in dismal failure. This poor end
result will surely drive them away from such a wonderful instrument forever.
Instead of trying to scare everyone away from trying in the first place, why
hasn't someone tried helping by creating a functional set of plans or a kit
that will produce, while not a professional grade instrument, something of an
intermediate quality that will keep them coming back for more?
I do hand engraving of metals, which is another passion of mine. It is a
difficult art to learn and a life time to master. Most who attempt to learn
the art do not follow through. They quit long before they reach even a novice
level. Hand engraving is a dying art in this age of machine reproduction.
Since it is a passion, I want the art to survive. So, I teach any and all
who want to learn. Will most of my students follow through and pursue
engraving? Probably not. But by removing the trial and error aspects of the
learning curve and by demystifying many of the "tricks of the trade" almost all
walk away with a positive learning experience. All take away with them a
strong sense of accomplishment. The small percentage who wish to pursue the art
further will have a solid foundation to work from as they journey down that
road. As I said before, knowledge that is not shared is in the end, wasted
knowledge.
Just my two cents worth.
Thank you for the many positive, helpful and encouraging responses!!!!
-William Gull
Juan Wijngaard and Sharon Berman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I agree with Chris, it is entirely possible to build a working hurdy gurdy
without plans if you want it bad enough, I did so over 30 years ago when
information was even harder to come by than it is today, I had no woodworking
skills and bought or borrowed tools as I needed them. I ended up with a pretty
unique diatonic creation, made out of mostly second hand furniture but it
looked like a hurdy gurdy and, maybe more by luck than judgement, it sounded
like one too. Like Chris, I learned an awful lot in the process and had no
qualms about getting in there with a chisel or knife to fix things when they
went wrong or to add improvements. It was a fun thing to do. Just be prepared
to keep going, to quote Roy Trotter: "Making a hurdy gurdy is like eating
peanuts, you can't stop at one." By the way, the last HG I made was a couple of
years ago, again without plans other than plotting out the keyboard, it was for
my son who was three at the time, the body was made from a toy wooden boat. It
works.
Juan
I am going to give a slightly different perspective to this issue, one I have
given before. I am in the minority here, as I consider myself an amateur
player of several instruments, not a professional, and while I enjoy getting
better, I also enjoy everything else that has to do with the older instruments
- the lore, the construction, the materials and techniques, thedesign and
aesthetics, the personalizations and the integration of new technologies into
the instruments. And I like to learn by doing, and I like to build things as a
tool to learn.
I built my first Sinphone (medieval box predecessor to a true hurdy gurdy)
without plans, without a model to go by, with only some basic knowledge of
structures, a whole lot of tool knowledge (and a bunch of tools) and 1 piece of
information - 354mm. The vibrating string length. It is amazing what you can
do with just that one piece of information.
I used woods I knew to be acceptable from some of my previous instrument
experiments. I experimented, and with some work I came up with an instrument
that I enjoy playing and some folks enjoy listening to. I play a few French
tunes, and I do the unthinkable - I play a bunch of bagpipe standards, things
like 'The Minstrel Bard" and "Amazing Grace", and I play harmony parts on some
old English folk songs and I even have my own cover of "Smoke on the Water".
In other words, I do not fall into the category that most folks here fall into
- students and performers of traditional Hurdy Gurdy.
So while a professional would probably find my first instrument a dismal
failure, I find it a spectacular success. I learned so much from that
instument that I never would have learned by reading about or looking at
someone else's work. And the second instrument I built, which was really just
a technology tester for what will be a much nicer, late medieval piece of my
own design, turned out better by leaps. So if my goal was to acquire an
instrument on the level of Wolfgang or Cali and Alden's offerings, I failed
miserably. But I acquired in my experiment so much more.
I also have to say that I do not get discouraged. I will not let the moderate
quality and excessive finickiness of my first instrument put me off from
continuing to study and develop my talents, and one day I would like to be able
to play proficiently some of the music I have seen videos for from OTW, but
that will come and I have patience.
I had made plans to be at OTW this year, but in a real surprise circumstance,
my wife and I discovered we are going to have another baby in Spetember
sometime, so I have to put that trip on hold for yet another year. But
hopefully next year, if nothing major gets in the way, I will be bringing my
current project and letting some of the experts critique it - that is how I
like to learn and how I like to 'network'. And maybe someone more proficient
than I will help me find the instrument's voice.
So if you are the unique kind of individual that likes the ride as much as the
destination, and you don't consider failures while learning to be anything but
successes in disguies, then I whole-heartedly suggest cutting wood, making
mistakes, building a few 'cats with digestive tract problems', having some
leughs, and learning a ton in the process. If you like to figure things out
yourself, it is possible. There are several reasonable plans, and a few books
with plans and construction articles. You can, if you have hand skills and a
technical mind, work through the problems and build something that will be, at
least to you, a wonderful thing.
But if you are mainly a performer, mostly interested in playing a really nice
instrument, then I suggest just buying one. There are not, on the market
today, any kits that will yield right from the box an instrument of the caliber
any of the professional HG luthiers are building today.
Chris
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 5/26/2008 at 10:53 PM William Gull wrote:
Greetings unto the list!!!!!!
My name William Gull and I reside in Nevada, Iowa and I am a first time
poster to this list.. I am a silversmith and hand engraver who does historical
reenactments for both recreation and and as a market for my hand work. It was
through my love of both medieval and 18Th century music that I was introduced
to the wonders of the hurdy gurdy. Since then it has been an ever growing
passion to learn to play one.
First things first, before learning to play I need to find an instrument to
play on. Being a hands on sort of person, I have decided I would like to try
building one. I know this will be a definite challenge, but it is one I am
willing to undertake. Like any new project I undertake, I am starting by
doing research and gathering as much information as I can. There in lies the
problem. While I am slowly collecting and reading as many books on all aspects
of the hurdy gurdy as I can get my hands on, there seems to be almost no
information on the quality of the hurdy gurdy plans and kits available. Does
anyone on this list have any recommendations or opinions on the commercially
available kits and building plans??? What would you recommend for the beginner
as far as must have books?
I appreciate any and all input that will get me closer to my goal of
learning the hurdy gurdy!!!!
In a shared hurdy gurdy passion,
William
