If we changed the wording of "kit" into "flat-pack" (I hope you will understand
that phrase, not sure if it's used in the US but refers to something you buy at
a store and self-assemble at home - often furniture) then we may be able to
better understand the problems.
I'm sure many of us have come across the problem of pre-drilled holes being
slightly (or miles) out of where they should be and similar problems (just put
together a garden seat with one misthreaded bolt hole which I will have to
redrill and one joint which is 1/4 inch smaller than the one on the other side!
which will have to be packed out).
If we wanted a really decent bit of furniture, would we buy a flat-pack or have
one made to order by a craftsperson?
It may do the job but there will be a difference in quality etc and there's
always the problems of holes drilled through knot-holes, in a bad piece of
grain etc (nobody is going to go through the wood and select only the finest
bits for a kit, sorry, it would put the price up far too much).
If you are happy with chipboard furniture, fine. You get what you get.
I have had to "alter" flat-packs on many occasions because the tolerances are
just too wide or too narrow for the things to fit properly (at least, as far as
my idea of "fitting" is concerned).
I'd probably take the middle road of a craftsperson built item but containing
some mass-produced parts and would expect reasonable quality form it.
I think that's fair.
Colin Hill
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew Szostak
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [HG] A passionate newbie full of questions
Hi William,
I want to add my opinions to this "amateur" kit- and scratch-building issue.
This question comes up every so often, but I think it's an important one to
discuss, so I'm glad you're here. There seem to be two main points to your
discussion: 1)You want a hurdy-gurdy, and 2) you wish there were "good plans or
a "good" kit.
First of all, the kit/plan issue. You want a "truly functional" hurdy-gurdy
kit, and/or plans that will allow someone with no instrument making experience
to make a decent hurdy-gurdy on the first try. The simple fact is, as most of
the "naysayers" here have stated, what you want isn't readily available. Umm.
sorry. Please don't berate the hurdy-gurdy community for not providing this
<g>.
The two following sentences in particular from your recent post caught my
attention:
"...the demand for a good kit and/or building plans is obviously there. It
truly surprises me that someone with the knowledge and experience has not
stepped up to the challenge and created a good set of plans or a truly
functional kit to aid those adventurous few that wish to challenge themselves."
I would argue that there isn't really an obvious demand for a good kit or
plans, if only an adventurous few wish to challenge themselves. Proper plans,
which must include many detailed drawings and instructions, would require a
great deal of time and effort to create. That adventurous few would have to
pay a hefty price indeed to make it worthwhile to anyone undertaking the job of
creating the plans. I'm here to tell you that as expensive as a hurdy-gurdy
may seem, it doesn't cost much for the amount of effort that goes into making a
good one. Most of the people I know who would be qualified to create the
resource you're looking for are plenty busy just trying to make a living
building instruments. And, I suspect that not all of the adventurous few would
want the *same* hurdy-gurdy. There are many different styles, and this would
reduce even further the need for plans of any one particular style.
Kits: I cannot speak for any other makers, but for me creating a kit would
probably be as much work as making a complete hurdy-gurdy. When I make an
instrument, I try to follow a somewhat consistent order of work that (in
theory, anyway <g>) allows for a certain efficiency in the process. And
despite the detailed mechanical nature of many of the parts, and my goal of
making things the same way each time, I do in fact adapt bits and fine tune
some adjustments as I go along, a process that just doesn't lend itself to the
kit-building concept. It's been said time and again: much of the effort of
making a nice sounding and well playing hurdy-gurdy is in the setup and
adjustment which takes place after most of the construction work is done. This
is arguably the greatest challenge to the novice hurdy-gurdy maker. To create
a kit that works well and works consistently for most anyone without any
hurdy-gurdy experience is an awfully tall order.
You may have noticed that I'm staying away from any personal opinion about
currently available kits. Unlike some of the other builders and players on
this list, I have no experience with any of them, so I cannot objectively
comment on them. But most on the list who have an opinion think that someone
without any experience with instrument making in general, and hurdy-gurdies in
particular, cannot expect to end up with a hurdy-gurdy that sounds good and
works well. I do know of a couple of people who have been satisfied with the
end result of their kit-making efforts, but only after assistance with setup
issues from someone with experience. Most who end up with a hurdy-gurdy that
works well enough to inspire them to continue playing soon want more features
or better sound than the kit provides; they either buy a "professional"
instrument or use what they've learned to make their own improved version.
This is, in my opinion, a strong statement about the inherent difficulties of
hurdy-gurdy kits in general. In the end, even the best kit is only as good as
the experience of the builder that makes it.
Blah, blah, blah. what you really want is a hurdy-gurdy, right? We can
discuss the lack of plans and the merits of kits forever; it's interesting but
it's taking away from your hurdy-gurdy building time! I may be misconstruing
some of the comments made by some of the list members, but I don't think that
anyone here is insisting that you *not* build your own hurdy-gurdy. If you
truly want to try, then by all means you should! In fact, from your in-depth
postings, I get the impression that you're someone who would in fact not be
truly satisfied with simply ponying up and buying a ready-made instrument.
So, what are you waiting for? Talk to the people who have built their own
instruments. Some are list members; some have websites documenting their
projects. Find out what they've used for resources, and get cracking! There
are no "secret enclaves" of hurdy-gurdy players in most every American town;
there are barely any hurdy-gurdy players in *any* American town. Most of them,
however, are willing to give their opinions if you ask them, which you did.
Most, also (myself included), are willing to help when they can, if you ask,
which you will. This is *precisely* why this list exists, and there is no
better use of it.
As Geoff and Juan have said, if you are determined to succeed you will,
despite the lack of kits or plans you desire. Maybe in the end, you'll be the
one who creates the kit or plan that everyone will want!
~ Matt
At 01:10 AM 5/28/2008, you wrote:
Greetings unto Melissa and the list,
I agree with your argument to a point...
"I don't think that anyone has made a violin kit that
can be successfully made by someone who has never
played a violin before. I don't think anyone builds a
bicycle without first learning how to ride a bicycle
built by someone else. Why should hg be any different?"
I know of instrument makers who have never played a day in their life
yet produce lovely, fully functional instruments. Being able to play is not a
requirement for making an instrument, although it would certainly be a great
boon to the effort. The same could be said for your argument about the
bicycle. It would be valid argument if I had never seen a bicycle in person
and was trying to create one from scratch with few or no references. The end
result would most certainly be a miserable failure. But, if I was armed a
great deal of research before I started and a valid set of plans, or even
better a well designed kit made by a professional bicycle builder, I could
more than likely create a functional bicycle. I certainly would not expect to
win the Tour De France on it, but it would more than likely function well
enough for every day use.
If the making of a hg by a novice had never happened, I would not be making
this argument. I would willingly acquiesce to the wisdom of the naysayers.
But it has happened, numerous times, with varying degrees of success, as many
of the websites and members of this list can attest to. This is how , by their
own admission, many hg builders got started. I am not the first and most
certainly will not be the last to attempt to make a functional hg. It just
seems to me a monumental waste of research , effort, time and money to
reinvent the wheel (in this case a rosined one) every single time a novice
wants to make a hg. I know that making a hurdy gurdy is a momentous task not
to be under taken by most. Yet, the demand for a good kit and/or building
plans is obviously there. It truly surprises me that someone with the
knowledge and experience has not stepped up to the challenge and created a
good set of plans or a truly functional kit to aid those adventurous few that
wish to challenge themselves.
It seems the only options advocated to most aspiring hg enthusiasts is
to buy a professional grade hg (which ,while well worth the money, is cost
prohibitive to most people, especially when just starting), to seek out the
secret enclaves of hg players that can certainly be found in most every
American town and apprentice to them, or sit on the sidelines and be forced to
watch as the hg parade pass them by.
Many before me have decided to take the road less traveled by trying to
make their own hg. I hope to join them. I do not think it unrealistic to hope
that some experienced traveler will offer directions to help get these hardy
few where they are going with a minimal number of detours and bumps in the road.
Just my humble opinion, offered with respect to all who share this list.
Sincerely,
William Gull
