First, my apologies for mis-posting my original message - I watch both [hlds] (the admin listserv) and this one - and I inadvertently posted to the wrong list.
If you have not been following the other list, then you might not be fully aware of the dismay this update has caused, almost universally, in the admin community. Your point regarding the desirability of the vendor to correct exploitable cvars (and more) rather than rely on the mod developers is well taken. In fact, this point of view has been long expressed by the admin community. On the whole, the admin community has been consistent and persistent in its call to Valve to address many issues. Here is a snip from a typical posting: "Players who cannot by hit because they have manipulated their rates to make them unhittable or refuse to use decent rates despite having 5ms pings and broadband connections Players who refuse to get flashed Players who can see through smoke Players who can see through transparent walls that the source engine allows Players who hit you more than a second after you have disappeared around the corner 33 tickrate servers being considered by Valve as the acceptable default server setup Most default CS SRCDS setting being completely crap A Valve approved API nobody uses because its completely useless Plugins that have to be used because Valve considers these issues should be dealt by plugin creators and on a per server operator basis, rather than doing anything about it themselves Could this list of issues that are significantly more important than server operators trying to bring some semblance of fairness to Counter-Strike:Source go on and on forever?" You stated: " If there are exploitable client cvars that need to be monitored by a server plugin, those exploits need to be fixed. Officially supported fixes (not Mani-mod client cvar enforcement) carry the benefit of games that are harder to exploit out of the box, and we don't have to worry about malicious server admins having unwanted access to client settings." Nothing would make the admin community happier than not to have to mess with 3rd party administrative tools, if Valve would only address the problems, which have been clearly identified for a very long time, as you say: "out of the box". Admins do not relish having unannounced server updates dropped on them, then having to scramble to bring back their downed servers and watch their traffic go down, as the cheater and hackers run rampant. With respect to this update, it has been said, and I fully agree, that the Player should have the right to protect the settings on their computer when they join a server. Someone used a java analogy, on this list, which was quite apt. Equally though, the GSPs and hobbyists, who run the many servers which are foundational to the players' game experience, must be afforded the means to ensure fair and balanced play. If the underlying flaws in the game engine cannot be directly addressed, then admins can only apply the tools with which they are equipped. If all you are given is a hammer (pardon the pun), then all screws are nails. If the client's ability to adjust cvars to rate hack, see through walls, etc is fully within their control, then, equally, a means must be provided to the server operators to deny access to players who chose to do so. Valve sent out an update that gave choice to the player community - but negated efforts of the admin community to operate fair and balanced game servers and, in fact, actually broke many servers which were running mods. Mods, by the way, which are developed by THIS community. My criticism of Valve still stands. They have not responded to this issue nor publicly expressed any interest in addressing the situation or even having the courtesy to explain their rationale. I may be wrong in my assessment with respect to courage, on their part. But the lack of common courtesy and respect for one community, which keeps their products alive, is apparent and long-standing. Frazer -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Peloski Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 10:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] cl_restrict_server_commands fiasco -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I don't think cl_restrict_server_commands is a mistake or bug. If there are exploitable client cvars that need to be monitored by a server plugin, those exploits need to be fixed. Officially supported fixes (not Mani-mod client cvar enforcement) carry the benefit of games that are harder to exploit out of the box, and we don't have to worry about malicious server admins having unwanted access to client settings. Think of a web-page that has the ability to change your web browser settings. It might be nice for a web designer to stick his site in your bookmarks or make sure you don't set your font size too large and break his layout, but, it's your web browser and your browsing preferences shouldn't have anything to do with the web-page author. I wouldn't address Valve like morons or cowards, it's impolite. Your point has some merit but the new cvar is hardly an outrage: why can't admins just use Mani-mod to kick/warn users who set their rate too high, instead of setting the rate for them? Regards, Paul On 11/17/06, Frazer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > For those who may not be following other forums - check this thread > out on the mani forum. > > > http://www.mani-admin-plugin.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&to > pic=33 > 03.15 > > > The growing consensus seems to be in favour of a mani mod update that > kicks players with the default setting, which was applied for them > courtesy of Valve. Posts in this forum seem to be landing on deaf > ears - but I suspect that if this little movement picks up momentum - > then its really going to get ugly fast. > > Valve: realize and admit the mistake and fix it. Admins are NOT your > enemy > - not yet, at least. If this auto-kicking thing takes hold, then your > PAYING customers are going to feel it. > > And one more thing Valve - have the balls and courtesy to respond to > the concerns being expressed here. > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > -- _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
