----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 6:12 AM Subject: hlds digest, Vol 1 #3306 - 7 msgs
Send hlds mailing list submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of hlds digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? (Bruce "Bahamut" Andrews) 2. RE: When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? (Andrew R. Mitcham) 3. Ip issue (Bobby) 4. Re: When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? (Bruce "Bahamut" Andrews) 5. Re: When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? (Tony) 6. Re: When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? (Bruce "Bahamut" Andrews) 7. RE: When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? (Andrew R. Mitcham) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:39:42 +1100 From: "Bruce \"Bahamut\" Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rather then pointlessly venting anger on the list you could take the time to email someone off-list at VALVe and they generally will respond rather fast. - Bruce "Bahamut" Andrews Andrew R. Mitcham wrote: >Wow. This is the #1,000,000,000 time I've heard this from someone who >doesn't work for VALVe in the past 2 years. Everytime anyone complains >about VALVe not updating VAC or not closing loopholes, someone who >doesn't work for VALVe or have ANY insight into VALVe tells everyone to >be patient because VALVe is working on something. > >I don't know about the rest of you server owners, but I'm absolutely >SICK and TIRED of hearing this. I've heard it during 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, >and now even Source. STFU!!!!! Please!!!!! We need something to >happen... NOW and we need to hear it from VALVe people that this issue >is now a top priority. They screwed us with the release dates for HL2, >the December update was a laughing stock and COMPLETE failure. > >I am 2 seconds away from just going with BF1942 or UT2K4 or something. >And don't tell me "Good, then uninstall and leave us all alone" because >I have dealt with this SHIT for YEARS... literally. This may be the Dos >Equis talking, but we need to do something (server owners) and let VALVe >know that this CRAP is not going to stand anymore. The pile of shitty >lies and ignorance is getting too high. WE MAKE THE GAMES HAPPEN. WE >MAKE THE PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO PLAY THEIR GAMES. > >_____________________________ >Darren J. Mason wrote: > >Everyone calm down a minute and think about the overall scope of things. >Valve is known for creating at least one, if not several of the most >awesome >games we have ever played. Development has ALWAYS been plagued by missed >deadlines, stolen code, and more missed deadlines. > >Should a new authentication scheme + anticheat measure been included >with >HL2 - of course! But this is Valve, and they are probably working on >something so revolutionary they can't possibly release it in conjunction >with the game it's made for. Even if they posted about it here, we all >know >any deadline hard or soft would be extended and extended. > >We will get something later rather than sooner, it will work for the >most >part, and we will be happy. It the freakin waiting that has always >killed >us! > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maarten van der >Zwaart >Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:59 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [hlds] When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? > >On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:09:43 +1100, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > >>Can somebody who is more familiar with Databases and Database security >>please explain to me/us why it is difficult for Valve to secure their >>STEAM_ID system? >> >>Doesn't Valve have complete control over the STEAM User and STEAM_ID >> >> >database? > >Yes they do. > > > >>Doesn't Valve know which STEAM_ID's belong to which STEAM Users? >> >> > >They do know. > > > >>Don't Valve know whether a STEAM Account has been created legitimately >>on their STEAM User database or not? >> >> > >All accounts are created legitimately. > > > >>Can't Valve verify that people in a server are using STEAM_ID's that >>were created legitimately and belong to the STEAM User they purport to >>be? >> >> > >They are using legitimate steam id's, that belong to legitimate steam >accounts. > >The problem is that the game server and/or authentication server does >not >check if the user owns the game he is playing. This probably needs big >changes in the way the clients obtain authentication data that is sent >to >the game server. This can be a lot of work, as changes are probably >needed >on clients, game servers and steam servers. Obviously these changes need >to >be made at the same time, as most likely this changes the communication >protocols used, which is also a lot of work. > >Developing a new authentication scheme is not an easy task, but I'm sure >they're working on it. We'll just have to wait. > >Maarten > >-- >A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. >Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? >A: Top-posting. >Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? > > > >Andrew R. Mitcham >Fire Gaming, LP Senior Partner >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >_______________________________________________ >To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: >http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Andrew R. Mitcham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [hlds] When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 01:48:26 -0600 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was just making the point that I believe VALVe relies on the replies of people like this to make the issue minor instead of major. It is people that say "Hey, relax guy. They are working on it" that makes the people who complain feel stupid and "n00b". Let us not forget that these people are NOT VALVe employees and DO NOT know anything more than US. This has occurred for YEARS and we need to stop that. It would make VALVe more honest and forthcoming about issues that relate to SRCDS/HLDS. I certainly would not be angry in I heard from an employee ANYHTING relating to this issue, rather than some dude in... Arkansas or something... that has no clue what is going on telling me to chill out. Again, this has happened for years and it will continue to happen until people make it known that it will not be tolerated anymore, especially by the people who supply the environment to PLAY the game in. -----Original Message----- Rather then pointlessly venting anger on the list you could take the time to email someone off-list at VALVe and they generally will respond rather fast. - Bruce "Bahamut" Andrews From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew R. Mitcham Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds] When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? Wow. This is the #1,000,000,000 time I've heard this from someone who doesn't work for VALVe in the past 2 years. Everytime anyone complains about VALVe not updating VAC or not closing loopholes, someone who doesn't work for VALVe or have ANY insight into VALVe tells everyone to be patient because VALVe is working on something. I don't know about the rest of you server owners, but I'm absolutely SICK and TIRED of hearing this. I've heard it during 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, and now even Source. STFU!!!!! Please!!!!! We need something to happen... NOW and we need to hear it from VALVe people that this issue is now a top priority. They screwed us with the release dates for HL2, the December update was a laughing stock and COMPLETE failure. I am 2 seconds away from just going with BF1942 or UT2K4 or something. And don't tell me "Good, then uninstall and leave us all alone" because I have dealt with this SHIT for YEARS... literally. This may be the Dos Equis talking, but we need to do something (server owners) and let VALVe know that this CRAP is not going to stand anymore. The pile of shitty lies and ignorance is getting too high. WE MAKE THE GAMES HAPPEN. WE MAKE THE PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO PLAY THEIR GAMES. _____________________________ Darren J. Mason wrote: Everyone calm down a minute and think about the overall scope of things. Valve is known for creating at least one, if not several of the most awesome games we have ever played. Development has ALWAYS been plagued by missed deadlines, stolen code, and more missed deadlines. Should a new authentication scheme + anticheat measure been included with HL2 - of course! But this is Valve, and they are probably working on something so revolutionary they can't possibly release it in conjunction with the game it's made for. Even if they posted about it here, we all know any deadline hard or soft would be extended and extended. We will get something later rather than sooner, it will work for the most part, and we will be happy. It the freakin waiting that has always killed us! -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maarten van der Zwaart Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:09:43 +1100, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Can somebody who is more familiar with Databases and Database security > please explain to me/us why it is difficult for Valve to secure their > STEAM_ID system? > > Doesn't Valve have complete control over the STEAM User and STEAM_ID database? Yes they do. > Doesn't Valve know which STEAM_ID's belong to which STEAM Users? They do know. > Don't Valve know whether a STEAM Account has been created legitimately > on their STEAM User database or not? All accounts are created legitimately. > Can't Valve verify that people in a server are using STEAM_ID's that > were created legitimately and belong to the STEAM User they purport to > be? They are using legitimate steam id's, that belong to legitimate steam accounts. The problem is that the game server and/or authentication server does not check if the user owns the game he is playing. This probably needs big changes in the way the clients obtain authentication data that is sent to the game server. This can be a lot of work, as changes are probably needed on clients, game servers and steam servers. Obviously these changes need to be made at the same time, as most likely this changes the communication protocols used, which is also a lot of work. Developing a new authentication scheme is not an easy task, but I'm sure they're working on it. We'll just have to wait. Maarten -- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? Andrew R. Mitcham Fire Gaming, LP Senior Partner [EMAIL PROTECTED] --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Bobby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 02:53:08 -0500 Subject: [hlds] Ip issue Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm getting the IP issue also, Lots of irate customers too!! Must be really bad or Valve would have came out with a update by now. -Bobby --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:58:04 +1100 From: "Bruce \"Bahamut\" Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, what's the chances THEY emailed someone there and found out? None of the VALVe employees are legally allowed to comment on any of it, with their NDA's and soforth, so you're not going to get an answer out of them regardless of how much whinging you do. Try emailing gabe if you know his email address, being the head guy he'd be the one calling the lines and when to cross them. - Bruce "Bahamut" Andrews Andrew R. Mitcham wrote: >I was just making the point that I believe VALVe relies on the replies >of people like this to make the issue minor instead of major. It is >people that say "Hey, relax guy. They are working on it" that makes the >people who complain feel stupid and "n00b". Let us not forget that these >people are NOT VALVe employees and DO NOT know anything more than US. >This has occurred for YEARS and we need to stop that. It would make >VALVe more honest and forthcoming about issues that relate to >SRCDS/HLDS. I certainly would not be angry in I heard from an employee >ANYHTING relating to this issue, rather than some dude in... Arkansas or >something... that has no clue what is going on telling me to chill out. > >Again, this has happened for years and it will continue to happen until >people make it known that it will not be tolerated anymore, especially >by the people who supply the environment to PLAY the game in. > > >-----Original Message----- >Rather then pointlessly venting anger on the list you could take the >time to email someone off-list at VALVe and they generally will respond >rather fast. > >- Bruce "Bahamut" Andrews > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew R. >Mitcham >Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:20 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: [hlds] When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? > >Wow. This is the #1,000,000,000 time I've heard this from someone who >doesn't work for VALVe in the past 2 years. Everytime anyone complains >about VALVe not updating VAC or not closing loopholes, someone who >doesn't work for VALVe or have ANY insight into VALVe tells everyone to >be patient because VALVe is working on something. > >I don't know about the rest of you server owners, but I'm absolutely >SICK and TIRED of hearing this. I've heard it during 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, >and now even Source. STFU!!!!! Please!!!!! We need something to >happen... NOW and we need to hear it from VALVe people that this issue >is now a top priority. They screwed us with the release dates for HL2, >the December update was a laughing stock and COMPLETE failure. > >I am 2 seconds away from just going with BF1942 or UT2K4 or something. >And don't tell me "Good, then uninstall and leave us all alone" because >I have dealt with this SHIT for YEARS... literally. This may be the Dos >Equis talking, but we need to do something (server owners) and let VALVe >know that this CRAP is not going to stand anymore. The pile of shitty >lies and ignorance is getting too high. WE MAKE THE GAMES HAPPEN. WE >MAKE THE PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO PLAY THEIR GAMES. > >_____________________________ >Darren J. Mason wrote: > >Everyone calm down a minute and think about the overall scope of things. >Valve is known for creating at least one, if not several of the most >awesome >games we have ever played. Development has ALWAYS been plagued by missed >deadlines, stolen code, and more missed deadlines. > >Should a new authentication scheme + anticheat measure been included >with >HL2 - of course! But this is Valve, and they are probably working on >something so revolutionary they can't possibly release it in conjunction >with the game it's made for. Even if they posted about it here, we all >know >any deadline hard or soft would be extended and extended. > >We will get something later rather than sooner, it will work for the >most >part, and we will be happy. It the freakin waiting that has always >killed >us! > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maarten van der >Zwaart >Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:59 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [hlds] When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? > >On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:09:43 +1100, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > >>Can somebody who is more familiar with Databases and Database security >>please explain to me/us why it is difficult for Valve to secure their >>STEAM_ID system? >> >>Doesn't Valve have complete control over the STEAM User and STEAM_ID >> >> >database? > >Yes they do. > > > >>Doesn't Valve know which STEAM_ID's belong to which STEAM Users? >> >> > >They do know. > > > >>Don't Valve know whether a STEAM Account has been created legitimately >>on their STEAM User database or not? >> >> > >All accounts are created legitimately. > > > >>Can't Valve verify that people in a server are using STEAM_ID's that >>were created legitimately and belong to the STEAM User they purport to >>be? >> >> > >They are using legitimate steam id's, that belong to legitimate steam >accounts. > >The problem is that the game server and/or authentication server does >not >check if the user owns the game he is playing. This probably needs big >changes in the way the clients obtain authentication data that is sent >to >the game server. This can be a lot of work, as changes are probably >needed >on clients, game servers and steam servers. Obviously these changes need >to >be made at the same time, as most likely this changes the communication >protocols used, which is also a lot of work. > >Developing a new authentication scheme is not an easy task, but I'm sure >they're working on it. We'll just have to wait. > >Maarten > >-- >A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. >Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? >A: Top-posting. >Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? > > > >Andrew R. Mitcham >Fire Gaming, LP Senior Partner >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: >http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Tony" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [hlds] When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 08:08:41 -0000 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quote "I am 2 seconds away from just going with BF1942" Good man it's alot better you know :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew R. Mitcham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 7:19 AM Subject: RE: [hlds] When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? > Wow. This is the #1,000,000,000 time I've heard this from someone who > doesn't work for VALVe in the past 2 years. Everytime anyone complains > about VALVe not updating VAC or not closing loopholes, someone who > doesn't work for VALVe or have ANY insight into VALVe tells everyone to > be patient because VALVe is working on something. > > I don't know about the rest of you server owners, but I'm absolutely > SICK and TIRED of hearing this. I've heard it during 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, > and now even Source. STFU!!!!! Please!!!!! We need something to > happen... NOW and we need to hear it from VALVe people that this issue > is now a top priority. They screwed us with the release dates for HL2, > the December update was a laughing stock and COMPLETE failure. > > I am 2 seconds away from just going with BF1942 or UT2K4 or something. > And don't tell me "Good, then uninstall and leave us all alone" because > I have dealt with this SHIT for YEARS... literally. This may be the Dos > Equis talking, but we need to do something (server owners) and let VALVe > know that this CRAP is not going to stand anymore. The pile of shitty > lies and ignorance is getting too high. WE MAKE THE GAMES HAPPEN. WE > MAKE THE PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO PLAY THEIR GAMES. > > _____________________________ > Darren J. Mason wrote: > > Everyone calm down a minute and think about the overall scope of things. > Valve is known for creating at least one, if not several of the most > awesome > games we have ever played. Development has ALWAYS been plagued by missed > deadlines, stolen code, and more missed deadlines. > > Should a new authentication scheme + anticheat measure been included > with > HL2 - of course! But this is Valve, and they are probably working on > something so revolutionary they can't possibly release it in conjunction > with the game it's made for. Even if they posted about it here, we all > know > any deadline hard or soft would be extended and extended. > > We will get something later rather than sooner, it will work for the > most > part, and we will be happy. It the freakin waiting that has always > killed > us! > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maarten van der > Zwaart > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:59 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [hlds] When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? > > On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:09:43 +1100, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> Can somebody who is more familiar with Databases and Database security >> please explain to me/us why it is difficult for Valve to secure their >> STEAM_ID system? >> >> Doesn't Valve have complete control over the STEAM User and STEAM_ID > database? > > Yes they do. > >> Doesn't Valve know which STEAM_ID's belong to which STEAM Users? > > They do know. > >> Don't Valve know whether a STEAM Account has been created legitimately >> on their STEAM User database or not? > > All accounts are created legitimately. > >> Can't Valve verify that people in a server are using STEAM_ID's that >> were created legitimately and belong to the STEAM User they purport to >> be? > > They are using legitimate steam id's, that belong to legitimate steam > accounts. > > The problem is that the game server and/or authentication server does > not > check if the user owns the game he is playing. This probably needs big > changes in the way the clients obtain authentication data that is sent > to > the game server. This can be a lot of work, as changes are probably > needed > on clients, game servers and steam servers. Obviously these changes need > to > be made at the same time, as most likely this changes the communication > protocols used, which is also a lot of work. > > Developing a new authentication scheme is not an easy task, but I'm sure > they're working on it. We'll just have to wait. > > Maarten > > -- > A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? > A: Top-posting. > Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? > > > > Andrew R. Mitcham > Fire Gaming, LP Senior Partner > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:20:22 +1100 From: "Bruce \"Bahamut\" Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] yeah if you like writing essays to ban people.. - Bruce "Bahamut" Andrews Tony wrote: > Quote "I am 2 seconds away from just going with BF1942" Good man it's > alot > better you know :) > --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Andrew R. Mitcham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [hlds] When will the "nosteam" hacks be fixed? Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 02:23:36 -0600 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] They could have a source at VALVe after emailing. But whenever I email someone at VALVe and get a response, I QUOTE IT. And reading the last 1,000,000 posts about how VALVe is working on it from some douche that has no clue if what he/she is saying is true or not does NOT have a quote from an email and clearly states that VALVe is "probably" working on it. I can see how you would feel that VALVe cannot legally comment on the issue. But if enough people get angry about getting jerked around about HL2 release dates, HEARING FROM GAME FREAKING NEWELL that the CS community would never be left out again. then VAC not updating, loopholes not being plugged, and a hyped December release that was literally a (server) FAILURE, you could make them comment about this. I clearly remember reading from a GameSpy article that Gabe and other VALVe execs/employees where going to be more forthcoming and responsive to the community now. They need to respond about an issue that is a pain in the ass and has been for a looooong time. It is going to take the community saying "OK, that is enough. No more room in my asshole" to get it through. Can you IMAGINE what CAL would be like with no ESP or wallhacks? My clan would be CAL-Premier by now. Can you IMAGINE no more myg0t, JAPS, speedhacking, no-recoil, no more having to explain your 1337ness to a n00b admin? You ban the speedhacker now. 20 minutes later; the douche has a new STEAMID. YAY! We (server admin community) have complained about this endlessly for years. I complained for a while then shut up for a good year or so because I was convinced VALVe was actually working on it (according to You Know Who). And I think now people are starting to smell the BS that people who stick up for VALVe (but do not work for them) are dishing out. We can either sit here in the same old state of: "they are working on it. they HAVE to be. it is SOOOO bad out there they MUST be working on it" . like the last few years OR just DO SOMETHING about it. -- --__--__-- _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds End of hlds Digest _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
