I suppose (after reading Fletcher's response) the question I have to ask then is: Why is the server scoring system not working? I had always understood that server scores were used to determine quickplay eligibility as well (?). If that was the case, then those servers providing negative experiences would have (presumably) had very low server scores?
Perhaps what we need to know is what the TF2 team considers to be a bad experience? If I had to guess, I would think they were talking about: 1. Fake clients/bots (of course) 2. MOTD advertisements (no matter how you spin this, it detracts from the game) 3. Server re-directing (this is an old problem dating back to CS) I'm sure there are a few other factors Valve would consider to be a "negative" experience as well (the "pay to win" premium stuff is probably not what they want either for quickplay). SO - what we need here is a solution to get rid of the negative stuff, while not killing off every non-valve vanilla server. Off the top of my head, I would suggest: - A more robust server-scoring system: Give a new server 45-60 days to prove itself via server score, then if that score drops low enough, simply remove it from the quickplay pool. - If quickplay is enabled on a server. then remove the ability for javascript, flash, and html5 ads to even function. (or remove it all together and allow server operators to fund their servers the old-fashioned way - through member donations, etc.) I think this is necessary anyway for both security, AND the fact that the "bad actors" already by-passed the previous changes by coding around them. - Stricter rules about quickplay eligibility: - If there are aspects that Valve doesn't want on a quickplay-eligible server (i.e. changing default weapon values, health, or any other of that "premium" stuff), then they should publish that, and servers that fail to comply would simply get dropped from quickplay permanently. Honestly, a more elegant solution (but much more time consuming, I'm sure) to this would have been to simply & quietly start dropping the servers/server groups that were causing the negative player experiences from quickplay eligibility. It would have taken more time, but it would have been much more "surgical" in implementation, and it would have had the same long-term result: killing off the bad servers. Valve's got so many great minds working for them, it just seems that this kind of "blunt" approach to the problem isn't worthy of them, and I hope it doesn't set a precedent for the future. With this, they've killed a mosquito with a sledgehammer, and I think they can do better. Community server operators were the ones providing the infrastructure for the game years before Valve was able to afford it, and throwing the baby out with the bathwater is an approach they should never take. On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Paul <ubyu....@gmail.com> wrote: > At least Fletcher has provided a response to someone in the community, > fingers crossed they can come up with a fairer and less 'nuclear like' > solution, or to possibly consider some of the suggestions posted on the > mailing list. Personally I can only see the answer so far being to either > change the default for official servers; or to have a dialog offering a > short side-by-side summarised comparison of the positive and negative > points and giving them the choice of which type of server (either official > or unofficial) the player would like to join; or last of all to improve the > description of what an official server means (e.g. again to summarise on > the advantages and disadvantages so the player, such as a new person to the > game, fully understands). While the RO2 idea is interesting, it looks to be > pretty much how Valve intend to run their servers (entirely vanilla, strict > configuration) which I doubt some communities would favor, unless I'm > mistaken. > > > On 26 January 2014 11:30, Saint K. <sai...@specialattack.net> wrote: > >> They should have a look at the people of RO2. >> >> >> >> We have to whitelist our servers there in order to be “ranked”. If we >> screw up the servers, they’ll easily unrank us. Works like a charm. >> >> >> >> Saint K. >> >> >> >> *From:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: >> hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *Doctor McKay >> *Sent:* Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:43 AM >> *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >> *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Mediated Discussion about Quick play change >> >> >> >> A member of my community received a response from Fletcher in reply to an >> email: >> >> >> >> We’re hoping the nuclear option isn’t permanent, because it isn’t ideal. >> I cannot promise anything in particular or any time frame, but I can say >> that we are looking for better solutions to this problem. We understand >> that we are basically using radiation to kill cancer. But the player >> experience was really bad and we felt it called for some immediate action. >> We hope it is not the long term solution. >> >> >> >> - Fletch >> >> >> >> >> Dr. McKay >> >> www.doctormckay.com >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 5:01 AM, ics <i...@ics-base.net> wrote: >> >> They are not going to kill TF2. It still brings them money and while >> people make contributions to workshop and new content, they can just pack >> it in and use that in the game. People buy keys and they get money that way. >> >> But i don't think we get a reply, they have become too big to answer us >> little folks. >> >> -ics >> >> Paul kirjoitti: >> >> They're obviously content with the idea they wish to slowly kill Team >> Fortress 2, or at the very least try to. They seem to be happy to ignore >> our complaints as always :x. I agree that the option to make official >> servers not default would be somewhat the answer, but getting Valve to do >> that or someone at Valve to answer our concerns is probably going to be a >> miracle. Perhaps if we keep up with the complaints on the mailing list they >> will eventually respond and agree. >> >> On 26 January 2014 05:57, ics <i...@ics-base.net <mailto:i...@ics-base.net>> >> wrote: >> >> Yes lets think about the end user that has been enjoying community >> servers and the care we take of our players, keeping cheaters out >> and other troublemaking trollers and especially offering a place >> to play on. For over 6 years our communities have helped TF2 grow. >> Only after game went Free to Play, Valve added their own servers. >> Do you even know where the players played before that? On our >> community servers only. It was decided that when game goes free to >> play, they will add extra servers to get new players to get on and >> get familiar to the game. Thats what they have been doing all >> along and they did thought the end user. Now grip tightens for >> unknown reason. >> >> The existing players will keep playing on our servers but due to >> severe lack of new ones ever finding our servers, it will get our >> servers emptied. The decision that was made is absolutely horrible >> and one sided. Yes, it's their game and they can do whatever they >> want but simply forgetting every server owner contribution to this >> game in the past, especially the ones that have been here since >> TF2 release and before, it's really sad to see it was made without >> atleast warning us ahead of the change and telling why it has to >> be like this. >> >> -ics >> >> Jon Just kirjoitti: >> >> Until valve can get rid of premium servers, ad farms, and >> server chains that monopolize the quick play system, I think >> that this change should stay. I feel bad that community >> servers have to be punished as well, but you need to think of >> the average tf2 player before the server owner. >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jan 25, 2014, at 2:32 PM, Supreet <coachcrock...@gmail.com >> <mailto:coachcrock...@gmail.com> >> >> <mailto:coachcrock...@gmail.com >> >> >> <mailto:coachcrock...@gmail.com>>> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I think it is very wrong to accuse certain communities and >> players who may or may not be exploiting the quick play >> system. >> >> Saigns or NightTeam is famous because there's a >> considerable amount of population that loves the >> customized gameplay. On the other hand, Skial I believe >> runs the best vanilla servers along with Lotus being one >> of the first largest TF2 communities who is still alive. >> >> You have to be understanding and give every community >> member credit and a pat on the back for their hard work. >> If it weren't for them, a lot of the TF2 population would >> be undecided in terms of their server preference. >> >> The problem at hand: >> New players are uneducated or lazy about unchecking a box >> that might be irrelevant to them. >> >> We cannot do much to fix it. By bickering and repeatedly >> complaining, Valve will not be interested in reading our >> comments. Let's keep our thoughts and ideas organized in a >> thread and make a kind request for Valve to tweak the >> change they have made. >> >> Someone mentioned an excellent point here about being able >> to create a new quick play account to quickly regain >> traffic. That is correct. That is also however part of the >> problem. A server should be able to build a score and >> reputation upon how long its been up. New servers should >> not get the same advantage as the servers that have been >> up for months or years. >> >> It is not the community's fault that Valve is making this >> change. The problem is the fact that Valve doesn't care >> much or supports about user made communities. If they do >> not want to aid us, we will have to help ourselves. There >> are a lot of communities who relied on quick play and >> quick play ALONE to fill their servers. That whole idea is >> wrong and biased towards communities that work really hard >> to organize giveaways, contests, make their own plugins to >> enhance the user experience. >> >> Valve - we understand you would like to keep a controlled >> population of TF2 going to your vanilla no plugins, no ad >> mins servers. Either you should remove all non valve >> servers from quick play and give all server ops the fair >> advantage or not pool us in the same system as your >> official servers and get rid of them or completely remove >> them from quick play. >> >> The idea of Valve servers are nice, but they seem to be >> the culprit of all problems. >> >> I kindly request a Valve employee to please provide some >> feedback and let us know if you are thinking about making >> any changes or keeping it then way it is. >> >> If you don't plan on making any changes, then please: we >> kindly request you to add another check box saying >> "Community Servers" and keep it unchecked by default - >> that shall make you happy and give users some insight and >> choice as well. >> >> Thanks for reading. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the >> list archives, please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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