Jan Brunner wrote: > I don't like the fov showing the position of the killer but removing > it removes only a small part of the information available to the > killed player. He can still hear what's going on and is able to see > for a short time (it's sometimes possible to count the enemy players).
Hi Jan, my point was not to emphasize the fov switching itself, but the fact that ghosting is possible in the brief period after death. There's really no need for this delay -- while it makes the pub games better for new players (since they can see from where they died), experienced players need no such "brain candy". > I for one think, that ghosting (if possible without the fov switch or > even with faster fade to black) should be allowed at LANs. One reason > is that the rules would be easier and no one could blaim the > non-English-speaking teams of having an advantage. Another one is that > CS is a game and communication is a good thing so I think it's strange > to disallow talking just because one is "dead" for a minute. It seems that Europeans really love their ghosting. ;) I think Euro teams are just used to playing with it, but North American CS generally frowns on such behavior; the concept of giving "privileged" information is viewed as a form of cheating (it's privileged because only the dead would know it). I agree with you that we need simple and fair rules across the various CS LAN tournaments, but I strongly disagree that we should let people ghost just to keep things simple. Precisely as you say, because of non-English-speaking teams having a perceived advantage, we should therefore level the playing field to the best of our abilities. The feature request is a small but significant step toward preventing ghosting. Whether or not a tournament allows talking while dead, we can cut away at the problem by removing the extra information the dead player sees. Clearly a player can blurt out "B rush" in his language (or even in code) after he dies, but if our feature request is granted, he won't be able to say "wait, it's a fake" because he saw them run back. In other words, the less information a dead player sees the better. Seems like this should be common sense. > It would be better for the worldwide competition if the CPL changed > this rule. I guess they won't do it because they say they are "setting > the standards" but think about it: Europe still has more good CS teams > than America. I disagree. Imagine if players in chess tournaments were allowed to "ghost" -- Kasparov may not see an esoteric but analyzed variation on the board, yet if one of his coaches does, should he be able to yell it out so Gary can take advantage? Any tournament that allowed such behavior would quickly lose credibility. I believe CPL is working to ensure the integrity of the game, and I believe other tournaments will follow suit. And what's this about Europe having more good CS teams than America? :) If by America you mean all the Americas, including the US, Canada, Central, and South America -- well, you better reassess that statement. Take away two well-known Swedish clans and there isn't much to brag about. ;) > Most European online leagues are played with mp_forcechasecam 2 and I > think most American ones, too. I like that, because it's much less > boring for the dead players and sometimes the dead players tell alive > players what's going on at another part of the map and coordinate > teamplay. I'm a strong proponent of mp_forcechasecam 2 rather than mp_fadetoblack 1, because like you said, it's quite boring to watch a black screen. But dead players shouldn't be coordinating teamplay! When you die you're "out". The game takes on a new dimension when the primary strat caller dies, since now the players are forced to think for themselves. Isn't a crucial 1v1 situation more interesting when the players' wits and not just their aim determine the outcome? I'd much rather watch a player think on his feet for his tactics, rather than know he has Vesslan whispering what to do in his ear. Furthermore, consider how much more teams can do strategy-wise without ghosting. Teams are much less likely to try fakes or bold timing maneuvers if they know a ghoster will blow the whistle. The game only becomes deeper and more interesting when dead players are, for all intents and purposes, dead. > But there's one problem: When playing with high updaterate switching > between players is smooth and during the switch one can sometimes see > enemies. Some players use that to their advantage and I think that > THIS is real ghosting as it's not just communication but something > like a wallhack. Most teams don't exploit this flaw but I've seen some > demos where it was obviously used (switching between POVs so fast that > the POVs were never really shown). I consider this a bug that needs to > be fixed. Agreed. This is a known problem and should be fixed, but at least it is something that can be easily detected with LAN observers or through watching demos. Well, thanks for the thoughtful reply, Jan. (By the way, your English is excellent. They must have good schools in Switzerland.) -- jupe How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
