Can you smell that? It's the smell of ignorance.
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 4:10 PM, dan <[email protected]> wrote: > On 04/04/2013 13:40, Bjorn Wielens wrote: > >> Indeed. >> As a (medium-sized) community we don't run pinion because we despise it >> as much as the clients. That said, I completely support the right of server >> ops to use ads (legitimately) in an attempt to recover operating costs. I >> also support the rights of clients to block the ads, though. Ops pay for >> servers and can do with them as they see fit, and clients pay for their >> internet connection/bandwidth, and can do with the bits servers send them >> as they see fit. >> > > It's not really that simple. > > For one thing, Valve supply the software under a license. And valve are > (in the sense of quickplay) supplying punters who want a specific > experience. A lot of them don't want to be joined to your server and if > they could help it, they wouldn't. But that's half the point, when Valve do > something to stop them joining, people cry on these forums that it isn't > fair and that their server is empty. > > Now Valve basically said "Set up these tags and don't bullshit in your > server data about players and bots, and then you can do more or less what > you want. But quickplay exists for this specific experience and if you want > quickplay players then don't piss on their strawberries" but, admins have > to keep pissing on quickplay's strawberries. They can't help themselves. > > They are greedy. Far from wanting to build up their own community of > people who want to watch adverts, they want getrichquickplay to send TF2 > players to their server to watch adverts, so they can roll around in the > cash. > > But, you cannot act like you've done anything to get a getrichquickplay > user to join your server to then justify "doing with them as you see fit" - > in fact what you have to do to get quickplay players is the complete > opposite of doing something, you need to just run the server as vanilla as > possible - but that doesn't stop you from doing anything - you might tempt > people who join to come back directly, or join another server you have > where you can fleece them for as much dosh as you can get away with. > > It's like, if you want to run an NTP server, and make it part of one of > the global pools, you have to go along with the rules, you can't say "It's > my server, I do what I like and my server has 25 hours in each day and > shows adverts for swiss watches from eleventy o'clock until 30 minutes past > thirtington each day" - because then they'll say "Ok, please take your > server with you on your way out" > > And, afaict, that's the real issue. People who join your server directly, > so far as I can tell Valve don't care too much about how you ruin their > experience or not. They get to vote with their own feet (I'm sure there are > still limits - and I'm equally sure those who think working for a living is > too hard will continue to find and push at them) > > But people who are clicking quickplay aren't asking for your addons, > adverts or anything else specific to you. They aren't even asking to be > connected to your server. It's you that has made the choice to accept > quickplay players. Valve have made it very easy for you to stop them > joining if that doesn't suit the way you want to run the server. > > > I agree that a lot of people don't realize the costs and amount of work >> that goes into running a community TF2 server. >> (In fact, this image sums up the menality quite nicely: >> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/**38481337/servers.png<http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38481337/servers.png> >> ) >> > > Hmm, some will know either because they've done it, or because some of the > servers they play on advertise servers. > > But I suspect what you say is true without realising in what way. I > suspect most people would be surprised at how cheap it was. Especially when > they are given this kind of "please donate, otherwise Bob Geldof will need > to write me a song" rhetoric, that's trying to make it sound like it's > financially crippling. > > > It'd be interesting if someone organized a TF2 blackout day like they did >> with SOPA to squash this mentality and educate folks what TF2 would be like >> if there weren't any folks investing time and money to run community >> servers. Then again, it'd probably fall on deaf ears from the 'HURR DURR >> BUT I PAID FOR TF2/TF2 IS FREE' crowd. >> > > If there's no server for me to play on, I'll run my own. It's a doddle to > do and it's cheap as chips. > Valve have plenty of servers too. > > You have no leverage to make this almost-a-threat with. > > It happens much of the time that a server I often play on, is either empty > or full - the world doesn't end, I just join another server. > Switch your server off, and that is all that will happen. People will play > on another one. > > One thing I do note though, many admins on here seem to have quite a bit > of disdain for the TF2 community. Arguably, a reasonable observation > perhaps, but if you want these people to give you money, that's not a good > impression to give them. > > Albeit, it seems they've figured treating your customers this way means > donations dry up. So now they are hoping to sell their users to > advertisers, again, in some circumstances this is clearly pissing them off. > It doesn't matter how wrong or stupid you think they are, if you implement > adverts, or anything else, in a way that pisses your users off, you will > eventually have no users and no advertisers will be interested either. > > -- > Dan > > > ______________________________**_________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux<https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
