--- Lobster wrote:
> ====================
> The email exists - never doubted it.
> Suspicious?
> Possibly . . .
Yes... we can agree on possibly suspicious, then?
> ==================
> m m m . . .
> How would you describe your tendency to be overprotective
> towards your 'security'?
> (quite natural given the past experiences)
It is a coping strategy that is common for people who have had similar experiences... there is an avoidance of anything that would be a trigger.
> That is what is being asked here
> Not the validity of what is happening
> BUT HOW it is being interpreted.
> This is were the core of the issue is
> you are saying we must agree
> that this email is suspicious
>
> Why must we?
> I totally understand that you experience it as suspicious . . .
The facts are that so far i have only been presented with 3 scenarios that explain the email.
1) My email account was used to send an unsubscribe request to Panhala and the email in question is one that Yahoo sent back to me to confirm the unsubscribe request... Since "i" never sent any such mail, i find the confirmation email to be possibly "suspicious."
2) Someone (without anyone requesting an unsubscribe) impersonated Yahoo and sent me the unsubscription confirmation email for [insert reason here...] Seems possibly "suspicious" to me for someone to do that.
3) Someone NOT using my email account spoofed my ID and sent an unsubscribe request (as in scenario 1) and the email in question is one Yahoo sent back to me. I would still find this behavior possibly "suspicious".
4) Any other scenarios? (I am including the possibility of spammers in scenario 3, btw)
> ===========
> I understand that the email is real
> Perhaps Joe who runs the Panhala list and is on this forum can
> provide some possibilities of how this 'suspicious' email came to be?
I don't think that Joe had anything to do with this email. If a list owner wants a member to leave a list, they can just remove the member and that action does not send any confirmation mail asking the member to confirm that they want to unsub.
> ==========
> > We have played this game before and it is YOU who is out of line
> > (IMO)
>
> Lob - i don't remember "playing this game" with you - i really don't.
>
> ============
> OK
> You wrote to me that one person
> was pretending to be someone else
> (a man pretending to be a woman I think it was)
> and you were so freaked out that they should
> be removed from that particular forum and never be
> allowed to profane the sacred space of that forum
I remember this, but it was not "playing this game" or any game. The circumstances are not exactly as you say but close for the purposes of this discussion.
> I thought your reaction was a little spooked.
You did not ask me about why i was spooked or discuss the situation with me at all. I was a list owner of the list (with you) and you unilaterally removed me as owner and banned me from the list with no communication between us about it.
> I did not remove the person and I remember
> you unsubscribed from practically every forum you were on
I unsubbed from the ones that you were on, but not all of my lists.
> changed your name (yet again)
I did not change my name. I POST on every list except for ONE using the yahoo profile of know_mystery and the name of know_mystery. That profile routes email to 4 mailboxes, but the name is know_mystery. I have always used the free yahoo and hotmail email accounts and have only had a "real" isp since i got dsl 2 months ago. I have not switched my list accounts over to the dsl email account because frankly i have not found an antivirus software program that works with it as reliably as the ones on yahoo and hotmail. I have written about looking for antivirus that works with Thunderbird mail here on this forum, in fact.
[And yes, i do have backup ids because i am a list owner and need to be able to access the lists if something happens to my ID or password, but i do not post to the lists with those IDs.]
The list where i posted with a different ID is one that i am NO LONGER subscribed to anymore. It was using an ID that was the first one i created a few years ago and i chose to keep it on that one list because of the nature of that list and my concerns about safety there. If i had to do it all over again, i would still choose to use a different ID on that particular list for the same reasons.
> and - well how do you remember that episode?
That is what i remember of that "episode."
I was not playing a game with you or anyone else. The person who freaked me out WAS playing a game... and at the time i felt that truth counts for something... You know, sacred space has been talked about even on this list - and there is a sort of logo (or something) in the files section that says sacred space. i think it is one that ts made for you.
> ============
> I am sorry about your disability but I am not prepared to
> disable others who are trying to enable you
> to behave in a way that accomodates your vision of this forum
You are saying that people here have the right to assume that it is their role to "improve" others if they decide to and to act on that without consideration of the boundaries or circumstances of the other person.
There was no bad behavior from me. I posted a simple request looking for technical advice and ts replied in a way that crossed a boundary that had been set more than a year ago. Psychological analysis on the part of ts is unwelcome. He does not have, as far as i know, the credentials to do such... AND a public email forum is NOT the proper place to conduct that... UNLESS the person agrees to it...It is a matter of consensuality between people.... i do not consent to being the subject of ts' psychological improvement efforts.
Lob, you know me pretty well and you know my circumstances (i think). Do you think that there is something that ts can "improve" that years of therapy with IvyLeage professionals have not been able to totally eliminate? I am a great believer in healing and i know what feels healing to me and what does not...
Now, you can choose to say that my saying that "disables others who are trying to enable me" - so be it. There are limits and there are boundaries and there should be respect.
> My vision is that people are quite within the remit to explain,
> question or otherwise interpret peoples behaviour
> and understanding of their interaction with technology
Yes, given proper boundaries and proper qualifications on their part, and sensitivity and tact and diplomacy and respect.
> Just as you are quite entitled to be saddened by
> people who (I truly believe) have no intent or desire
> except for your personal good . . .
People can still get harmed even when the other is operating with "good intent." In my situation, things are fairly complicated... Someone's "innocent" well-meaning good intentions can still be harmful and ultimately inappropriate. I set a boundary with ts more than a year ago...
> I mean ts in this case.
> =============
>
>
> > I felt
> > I sensed
> > I intuit
> > NO ill will (far from it)
> > from ts
>
> i had told him more than a yeat ago that i did not
> want analysis from him... Maybe he forgot...
>
> ==============
> Perhaps
> Up to him to say what he wishes
> in this regard
The thread might still be out there elsewhere in yahoogroups.
> ==============
>
>
> > Yet you feel slighted
>
> No - slighted isn't the word for what i feel. I feel pretty sad, but not slighted.
> =================
> Sad in what sense?
I think you should be able to answer that yourself...
> ============
> I do not doubt that processes occur or that emails are real
> That you are saddened by others not meeting your wishes
> is whose internal response?
Others have behaved inappropriately.
> How can you gain or make some good of this?
i have no words for what i feel about this...
> ============
> That's OK.
> Everyone is sorry they are misunderstood or misunderstand.
> How can communication be improved?
people can respect boundaries of others
people can honor agreements that have been made between them previously
people can be more sensitive
people can work on trying to "improve" themselves first instead of trying to "improve" me or others
people can learn what is an appropriate way to treat others who have different limitations
===============
>
>
>
> So now what?
>
> love and peace,
> joyce
>
>
> ==========
> Up to you . . .
> Lobster
> ==========
>
Lob, i should not have to be put in the position of explaining all of this very very very very private information here. i know you are trying to be helpful... i TRUST that you are trying to be helpful... but there are other places and other ways this could have been discussed or accomplished... this hurts.
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