Hi Jim, I agree with you.
Let me just add a few words on #2 : You are absolutely right that pulling cable is hard and expensive. That is the rationale of PLC : Using existing wires. PLC is already used reliabily for high speed networking, but you are correct that it is not as popular as Wireless. Mostly because networking devices already embed a Wifi and/Or Ethernet interface, rather than a PLC interface. So people don't see the need of buying additional material for a connectivity they already have… Though people use PLC because they feel surrounded by RF, or they cannot reach some point of the network with wireless, or the PLC device is provided by their ISP (like in France). (There are others reasons for using PLC outside the home, but I think it is out of the scope of Homenet). PLC also suffers from a lack of standardization, and different technologies/Standards are often non-interoperable, or simply cannot coexist on the same electrical grid. An effort is ongoing in IEEE P1901.2 to create a standard for low frequency narrowband PLC. Just my 2 cts, Cédric. Le 11 oct. 2011 à 21:10, Jim Gettys a écrit : > On 10/07/2011 03:48 AM, Fred Baker wrote: >> 4) The use of OLSR in mesh network scenarios >> >> Jim Gettys commented on the fact of OLSR use. The general sense of the room >> was that OLSRv2 is interesting but out of scope for this discussion as mesh >> networks are quite different from typical residential and SOHO networks. >> > Actually, I have no opinion of OLSR, Babel, Babelz or OSPF; it's not my > area of expertise. > > Babel/BabelZ is appearing in CeroWrt today as the people who are > interested in such things are doing the work (we don't need a routing > protocol in the simple single home router case), and it provided the > functionality we needed. > > For those who want something else, quagga is in the CeroWrt build for > your hacking pleasure. > > And I'm not advocating the homenet working group do anything unusual > about routing at this date; as I said, it's not my area of expertise. > > Having said this, I do note the following technological trends: > > 1) As soon as we get real "plug and play" routers that don't need manual > configuration that work, we'll see a lot more routers in a home > environment. Other radio technologies (e.g. zigbee) may encourage this > trend. It seemed like the working group agreed that getting to the > point that just hooking things together would really "just worked" was a > fundamental requirement (and I agree entirely with this sentiment, as it > reflects reality of what already happens in the homes of hackers and > non-hackers alike). > > 2) wireless is much cheaper to implement than wired networking, > particularly in most houses where pulling cable is hard. I know this > first hand, where I've pulled a lot of cat 6 and wish I could get it to > places I don't have it. > > Unless power line networking really works, I believe that this trend > isn't going to change. Is there any progress in this area? I've seen > many promises, and few reliable working products. > > 3) As soon as you have two routers, you have at least two paths; the > wired connection between them and the wireless. You may have 3 paths, > if you have both 2.4 and 5ghz radios. Frequency diversity routing > becomes immediately interesting, along with using your ethernet when > it's available in preference to wireless. > > 4) an apartment building look like a mesh, and possibly with multiple > backhauls possibly with multiple ISP's. One should at least think about > what happens when you have "homes", in such a building, and make sure > nothing breaks. Wireless is messy: it isn't limited to where a wire > goes. Taking down an entire apartment building/blocks/city would not be > fun. I know, I've been there (at least to the point of taking down > buildings, and came within a week of a much larger scale disaster). > > If you believe 1 + 2 + 3 +4 (as I do), then if you look a few years > out, you end up with something in the "home" that begins to resemble > very strongly what the community mesh networking folks are doing at a > higher scale geographically and in terms of # of nodes today, with > many/most of the same concerns and solutions. Understanding the problems > they've faced/are facing is therefore worth a bit of investment; Radio > diversity is one of the concerns, and interference (of various sorts). > > Julius' talk about why frequency diversity is an issue is here: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VNzm0shSA8 > > While the issues outlined above are not where home networking is today, > my gut feel is they will be in five years. > > If there is *anything* I can urge on the group, is to respect the > scaling problems that can/will occur, and to internalise wireless > !=wired: wireless goes where wireless goes and does not behave like > ethernet. The group needs to ensure nothing "bad" happens when people > start building systems in ways you don't expect, particularly in an > apartment building. The challenge is balancing the reality of how > wireless works, with "just works" automatic configuration, with "fail > safe" behaviour. > - Jim > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > homenet mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet > _______________________________________________ homenet mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet
