On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:22 AM, james woodyatt <[email protected]> wrote:

> p1. I don't believe it's reasonable to assume that service providers will
> always provide a short enough prefix to number all the links in a
> subscriber's network, or that those that currently do will continue to do
> so into the foreseeable future, or that they will even give notice prior to
> reducing the space delegated to a subscriber.
>

Ok, but in that case the only options available to us are a) give up, or b)
make routing work with smaller-than-/64 prefixes. I believe our current
plan is to give up and tell the ISPs that if they want to run a routed
home, then they need to assign it more than a /64.

The alternative is basically a vicious circle: if ISPs ignore the IETF's
advice and assign a /64 because they see additional address space as an
upsell opportunity, then someone will figure out how to share the /64 by
using ugly hacks like routing /128s assigned from DHCPv6. Goodbye privacy
addresses, goodbye robust routing, but still, things will work most of the
time. If the ISPs start to assign smaller than /64, things still work until
they assign fewer /128s than the number of devices you have. At that point,
someone will implement NAPTv6 and we're back where we started in IPv4.


> p2. In a decent sized subscriber network, with several subnets in place, a
> /56 delegation means a small but significant changes that a randomly
> selected subnet identifier will collide with an existing one, whenever a
> router joins the network.  With a /60, the odds climb quite a bit, and in
> some networks it will be 15/16. (Do not make the mistake of assuming that
> router joins and leaves will be infrequent events. Plan for them happening
> several times per second, or you will be sorry later.)
>

Ok, but isn't that why the prefix autoconfiguration drafts assume that
collisions are a regular part of prefix assignment? Are there issues with
those drafts? Will their approach not work?


> p3. All this pain can be traded away for the reasonably well-understood
> pain of NAT66 and a single ULA prefix with a constant 16-bit subnet
> identifier space, where collisions will be rare and stateless prefix
> autoconfiguration will settle quickly basically every time.
>

How is using a single ULA better for this? Perhaps you don't have to deal
with changes in flight (well, assuming that a backup router becomes
available to act as ULA anchor when the designated ULA anchor is
unplugged/crashes), so maybe that's a simplification. However, the moment
you try to use more /64s internally than you have externally, stateless
NPTv6 doesn't work any more, right?

For example, suppose you use fc00::/48 in the home, and you have two links,
which you number fc00:0:0:1::/64 and fc00:0:0:2::/64. You have one host on
each link, and for some reason they both pick the same interface ID, so
host A is fc00:0:0:1::dead:beef host B is fc00:0:0:2::dead:beef. Everything
works fine so far. Now suppose that externally you have only one /64,
2001:db8::/64. I can't see how that can work: if you get a packet
to 2001:db8::dead:beef, you don't know what to do with it.

I think if we want to avoid the temptation of subscribers to deploy NAT66
> to preserve the stability of their 16-bit subnet identifier space in the
> face of service providers "enhancing their choices" with a variety of plans
> with varying policies for prefix delegation, then we have to do it with a
> stateful subnet manager in the network, near the border gateways.


If you don't have enough external space for all your hosts, then a stateful
subnet manager isn't enough. You need a stateful host+port manager. i.e.,
you need an IPv4-style NAPT.
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