This reply is over stated and over simplified. In fact, the vocal chords do have a significant effect on the timbre of the sound, though the resonances of the vocal tract have the major effect. The vocal chords and lips are more than passive vibrators. When I switch from full voice to falsetto on the same note, there is a large change in timbre. When I lip notes sharp or flat, there is a change in timbre, as much as by changing the volume of my mouth.
It's a system. Herb Foster ________________________________ From: Ralph Hall <[email protected]> To: The Horn List <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, February 25, 2010 5:19:22 AM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Is Colour Blind? Hi Neeraj, Interesting points you make but I take exception to one comment in your first mail which is very misleading: "Almost all of the result in almost all aspects of playing comes from the lip including tone and tuning." Leaving the tuning side of things for the moment, the lips have practically NO direct bearing on the tone. Or, do you imply that if you have bigs lips you make a big sound and vice versa ?(!) If you can get hold of a copy of 'The Horn Player' (the organ of the British Horn Society) Volume 5 Number 2, Autumn 2008, you will be able to read the first of a series of articles I am writing for them, the first of which is entitled "Tone: the inside story". Briefly, I make the comparison between a singer's vocal chords and a brass player's lips. The sound (tone if you like; or better still, 'individual voice') comes from elsewhere. Vocal chords and lips equate to a reed and I have yet to hear that George Szell insisted on his oboists whittling reeds from the same piece of cane! Why do you think that an individual's voice is recognisable? And why do think the training of a singer involves the manipulation of the mouth cavity, the development of the chest tones and head voice? It's because here lie the resonating chambers that dictate the sound we make and, incidentally, go largely unrecognised by the majority of brass players. This is a big subject for the list but a simple example will suffice: if you have a smiling embouchure, a thin tone and difficulty with pedal notes will result. This is nothing to do with the lips but everything to do with the fact that, acoustically, the mouth cavity is too small and not in relation to the pitch being played. If you want a satisfyingly big 'sound', always strive to keep the lower jaw as low as possible even when playing the higher pitches so that your mouth cavity becomes a big resonating chamber.There are other, secondary, resonating chambers that play an important part in tone production but that's enough for now! I suspect that a horn section all playing the same type of instrument is the visual in search of the unattainable. When I was 2nd Horn in the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra, at the turn of the '70's into the 80's, we were invited by Paxman's to try out a selection of Conn 8D's at bargain price. I went and picked up 13! in my Volvo and drove back in the thickest fog I'd seen since I was a schoolboy in industrial Manchester. I was so worried about being rear-ended by a huge truck that I drove over 100 miles on side roads. We chose the best five and played on them for a year. We looked good but failed to disguise the characteristics that delineated our individual sound. Enough said. Ralph R. Hall On 25 Feb 2010, at 00:54, Neeraj K. Mathur wrote: > On the earlier point: I agree that the attempt to achieve blend > through > equipment is a relatively fruitless tactic, and some of the case > studies I > have been sent off list have convinced me; nevertheless that must be > the > thinking behind those sections who do this. You guys will have a > better idea > than me - is it not the case that the NY Phil section all played on > 8Ds, > then all switched to Schmids at one point (I read this somewhere in > the > archives)? If that is so, is it coincidence or policy? It is a > separate > question as to whether that policy was successful..! > > On the second point: I did not make the strong claim that 'nickel > silver > horns are brighter than brass horns'. I made the weaker one, that > the nickel > silver alloy is inherently brighter than various brass alloys - that > is, > when all other aspects of the horn design are equal, the nickel > silver horn > will have a slightly brighter tone with more projection than the brass > alloys will. This is certainly what manufacturers seem to think > (compare the > comments Holton make on the H179, H180, and H181 at their catalogue: > http://www.holton-horns.com/frenchhorns/category.php?category=Farkas/Holton > % > 20Horns). I can vouch for this too, from my experience trying an 8DR > (with a > rose brass bell) for a month before switching to the standard nickel- > silver > 8D - in comparison, the 8DR is even darker, and is harder to project. > > Obviously, the metal alloy is just one factor in the brightness of the > sound; bell throat size is likely more important. That's why a > large-throated Kruspe style 8D or H179 will always sound darker than > a brass > Geyer-style horn with a smaller bell throat. The metal in effect > works only > to temper the effect of the bell throat (which is what I said in my > earlier > post), to avoid exaggerating those characteristics beyond reason. > When your > ears have been telling you that nickel-silver horns sound darker > than brass > ones, you have almost certainly been hearing the effects of the bell > throat > and design of those instruments, rather than the metal. To hear the > impact > of the metal, do a controlled blind test on horns that are otherwise > identical (like 8D v 8DY v 8DR, or H179 v H180 v H181). > > Neeraj Mathur > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf Of Robert Dickow >> Sent: 24 February 2010 8:30 PM >> To: 'The Horn List' >> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Is Colour Blind? >> >> I've heard that some conductors want the section players to use the >> same >> make of horn. How many players or principals would insist on this? >> Personally, I think this is a silly, or at least fruitless, tactic. >> I've >> found that horns within the same model vary considerably. I tried 14 >> Merkers >> before I bought the one I have now, and each horn was different by a >> surprising amount. I've tried a gazillion Conn 8ds, and they are all >> distinct to some degree, in tone, playing characteristics, and >> especially >> intonation. Couple that with the variances between players, and the >> brand >> name distinctions become irrelevant. JMTCW. >> >> Wendell, remember way back when when you tried various horns on stage >> in the >> San Francisco opera house, and folks listened to the differences? I >> just >> remember that--though there were differences-- you ALWAYS sounded >> like >> Wendell Rider. >> >> I was also interested to note the claim in this post that nickel >> silver >> horns are brighter in tone than brass horns. I've gone through my >> whole >> life >> thinking the opposite, and hearing the opposite. I could still be >> mistaken, >> it's just a curious note. >> >> Bob Dickow >> Lionel Hampton School of Music >> >> ----------------original message excerpt: ------------------ >> <snip> ...tone, so this can be made more rich by using gold >> brass or yellow brass; conversely, large bell throat horns have a >> richer >> tone, and so using a nickel-silver alloy will help them project >> better. >> >> You say that horn sections on TV have horns of the same colour. On >> inspection, you will find that many horn sections in fact use the >> same >> model >> of horn. This is to ensure that the entire section has similar tone >> qualities, and blend well to <snip> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> post: [email protected] >> unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi- >> bin/mailman/options/horn/neeraj.mathur%40chch.oxon.org > > _______________________________________________ > post: [email protected] > unsubscribe or set options at > https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/ralph%40brasshausmusic.com Ralph R. Hall [email protected] Ralph R. Hall http://www.brasshausmusic.com _______________________________________________ post: [email protected] unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/herb_foster%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ post: [email protected] unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
