Stop this right now! A well reasoned, polite discussion on the Internet must violate some law of nature, if not man.
On Feb 11, 2011, at 4:40 AM, Hans Pizka <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes, William, perfectly expressed but polite also. > It is a pity, that such subject too often require, that > they are the gods in their field, but lacking the most > simple concepts, as you said. We can do nothing > against & why should we. They will bump their nose > very hard - sooner or later. > > By the way, it is a pleasure, that we both found a way > to agree in principles as our views of the things are not > that different at all. > > ################################################# > Am 11.02.2011 um 12:28 schrieb [email protected]: > >> Point taken. Everyone has different aptitudes. It isn't often politically >> correct to say so, but there are some people I've met who seem to never >> understand simple concepts of music, or mathematics, or even language. It >> doesn't mean that they are dumb, just that those subjects are just not what >> they >> are good in. >> >> -William >> >> >> In a message dated 2/11/2011 6:26:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> Hello William, >> >> I agree with what you have said, but oppose one thing: >> >> if there is no talent even the hardest work will not produce more >> than a technical very good executor. >> >> Very good ear cannot be acquired, it must be there. >> Rhythmical feeling can be cultivated but must be there before. >> Anatomically good facts must exist, but must be cultivated too. >> >> A good perception of colors, also the colors of the sound must exist, >> just needing perfection. If this distinction does not exist, it >> cannot be built up by no means. You cannot teach a color-blind >> to distinct mini changes in colors or color relations. >> (Be relativated: it is possible within certain limitations.) >> >> Otherwise, your statement is correct. >> There are no secrets with musicianship. >> Recognizing high quality comes from experience & being >> exposed to high quality. >> >> But this is valid not only for the arts, but should be valid for >> all ways of life. >> >> #################################################### >> Am 11.02.2011 um 12:10 schrieb [email protected]: >> >>> I agree with Hans on this. Musicianship is not some ethereal, magical >> thing >>> that is mysterious. It's something pretty definite, and something that >> can >>> be taught and learned. >>> >>> The biggest thing I don't like to hear regarding musicianship is the >> idea >>> that it somehow can't be taught. It sort of goes back to a general >>> epistemology - can you figure something out, or are you going to stand >> back and say >>> "gee I don't know", or worse yet, invent an answer that isn't even true >>> just so you stop looking? >>> >>> If we stopped at the ether theory of matter, or astrology, we would have >> >>> never figured out how things really worked. Thankfully we didn't. >>> >>> With enough hard work, you might very well be the next Radovan or ver >>> Meulen. Then again, you might not - but it won't happen with a lot of >> dedication >>> and a lot of knowledge from those who know how to do it. I liken it to >>> running a marathon. You may never be the fastest marathon runner in the >> world. >>> But, history is rife with people that trained properly of all shapes >> and >>> sizes and who ended up running many marathons under three hours. (But, >>> nobody is going to fault you for not being the next Dennis Brain or >> Paula >>> Radcliffe if it doesn't make you happy.) >>> >>> -William >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 2/11/2011 5:35:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>> [email protected] writes: >>> >>> Musicianship requires a lot: >>> >>> very good ear, perhaps acquired perfect pitch, perhaps >>> superb rhythmic sense >>> very good objective taste >>> >>> plus: listen, listen, listen >>> plus: store the listened musical pieces well, so to find the data for >>> reproduction purpose >>> plus: musical understanding, acquired by reading scores & hear they >>> realized to sound >>> the same time, but no musical instrument touched & no record player of >> any >>> type turned on. >>> >>> plus: understanding the arts in general, developing a sense of >> symmetry, >>> progression >>> & tension & relax; understanding colors & setting them into relation to >> >>> acoustical >>> sensations (sounds). >>> >>> plus: performance technique, performance routine, performance >> discipline >>> >>> plus: comprehensive knowledge about the music writing (composing) >> system, >>> harmonic >>> system, bigger phrasing to the mini phrasing. >>> >>> plus: being exposed to music from the very early years of life >>> >>> A very good teach has all this & is able to transfer it to the students >> & >>> motivate them >>> to follow his or her example, using their brain & phantasy. >>> >>> ##################################################################### >>> Am 11.02.2011 um 10:25 schrieb Lawrence Yates: >>> >>>> I'm not sure you can teach musicianship but you can, to a point, teach >> a >>>> damn good imitation. I had a colleague who taught some very unmusical >>> kids >>>> to produce what sounded like very musical performances - they couldn't >>> feel >>>> anything, but they could follow instructions to the letter. Whether >> that >>>> ever turned into what I think we are calling musicianship, I don't >> know. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Lawrence >>>> >>>> On 11 February 2011 09:14, Ralph Hall <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ralph R. Hall >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> Ralph R. Hall >>>>> http://www.brasshausmusic.com >>>>> >>>>> I have just written two articles attempting to answer the question: >>>>> 'Can you teach musicianship'? >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Lawrenceyates.co.uk >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> post: [email protected] >>>> unsubscribe or set options at >>> https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/hpizka%40me.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> post: [email protected] >>> unsubscribe or set options at >>> >> https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/valkhorn%40aol.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> post: [email protected] >>> unsubscribe or set options at >> https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/hpizka%40me.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> post: [email protected] >> unsubscribe or set options at >> https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/valkhorn%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> post: [email protected] >> unsubscribe or set options at >> https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/hpizka%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > post: [email protected] > unsubscribe or set options at > https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net _______________________________________________ post: [email protected] unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
