excerpts first: Galloth <[email protected]> wrote: > I think it is stab in the back, because > I cannot explain myself to the other mentor.
A link to this post will be forwarded to the GSoC mentors list so that interested GSoC mentors can read the explanations. > I should have answer into hugin email list and than unsuscribe, > but now, I am not going to subscribe back Done it for you. The mail, in its entirety as below, has been forwarded to hugin-ptx. The archives are world-readable, no need to be subscribed. I have no further comment nor further wish to discuss with you. Yuv Galloth <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Yuv > First I should explain why I am writing to you and not to hugin email > list. That is because I unsubscribe from that list. You have right > that I am not good for hugin comunity. I am going to explain it later > in the email. I also think that you should read it all, because of the > reason decribed later. > > 2009/3/28, Yuval Levy <goo...@****.ch>: >> Hello Jan, >> >> Galloth <[email protected]> wrote: >>> But I will not start programming until I will be selected, so I give >>> up on hugin (which requires sending a patches) although I understand >>> why you requiere it. >>> But when you asked, I am interested. Is that topic still free? Should >>> I write proposal even if I will work on hugin only after I got >>> selected? > > Did my email offend you? It was not the purpose and I do not see why. >> We're not looking for mercenaries here, we are looking for committers to >> join our community which is all about giving and not about taking. > I am not a mercenary and I am little offend by that. I am person with > more than one interests and hobies so I want to choose wisely, what to > do. The fact, that google offers money is motivating that is true. But > I am willing to do only jobs, that interests me.The fact I am not > wiling to work for huggin before being selected does not mean that I > am not wiling to do anything. Mostly it is an answer to your request, > that student should do unnecesary work. At last that is how I see it. > You require that students to do patches and wrote: > > no worries about duplicate efforts. > > for you it is a bug hunt, for the students it is about showing us that > they can hack the code base. There is no requirement for the student > patch to be useful or to be applied to the code base when considering > them for GSoC. > > So I as student should work why? Not for money, not to write useful > code and therefore I do not want to write at all. When you asked about > interested student, I replied because I was interested in the > proposal, but I also told you, that I do not want to send these > patches. Maybe I should write you why. >> Selection for participation in Google Summer of Code is a privilege. We >> are humbled by Google's generosity toward our project. We are equally >> humbled by the generosity of all contributors to the community and by >> the generosity of students who decide to apply. > > Yes GSoC is a priviledge, but it should be because only best people > are accepted. Therefore I would understand that you want to saw their > code, to choose the best. and therefore I asked, if you are interested > in my proposal even without me sending the patches, because If I do > not send the code, you can not compare me with the others. > > I do not agree with other parts of the paragraph, but it is my > subjective opinion and probably the biggest problem at all. > > I see GSoC as simply agreement. Students offers his time and work to > some organization. Orgaization offers know how,interesting problems > and open source oportunities. Goggle simply offers some publicity and > a money. I myself think that publicity is more important. I would > never hear of most of these interesting organizations there without > GSoC. > > >> The only feedback I can give specifically to the question you are asking >> is that you are free to write a proposal and we will consider it like >> every proposal. > >> Potentially we could even accept you and get you started during the >> community bonding period. And we could decide toward the end of the >> community bonding period to ditch you for whatever reason. No money for >> you then. And let's not forget that we could fail you at mid term and at >> the end of the program. > > When I fail with my job, than I am not going to get money. I do not > know, why you writing it. Are you suggesting, that you took student, > take his work and let him fail? I hope not, but it is how it looks to > me. When I am writing proposal I think if it is interesting and if i > am able to and wiling to do it. I do not even think about time so > much. And therefore not about money. What if I choose proposal that > will take me 6 months to complete or more? In this perspective, > googles money are not so much. But as I wrote earlier, it is a > motivation to start, not pay. > >> And you know what? I'm not interested playing this kind of games. >> Because from your statements I get the impression that once Summer of >> Code is over you will disappear, and all my efforts and Google's money >> will have been wasted on paying for some code that we could probably get >> done faster, better, with less effort and money. > > You got a wrong impression. If the community is nice and the problems > are interesting, I will continue. Are you interested in my opinion > about you? I think not, so I am not going to write about it. > >> My interest is to attract people to stick around in the long term, to >> see them growing. It's an investment. Like any investment, initially it >> costs more than it yields. Over time it bear fruits. > > It is the same for the student. During the GSoC one can evaluate how > the community is and if he wants to continue to work with it. > Sometimes it can be done a lot more faster, like now. > >> Your post motivated me to look back, to see how the return on our >> investment was. >> >> I am happy to see: >> >> * Ippei (2007) still active on the Mac build despite having joined the >> workforce. >> >> * León (2007) still active on FreePV and applying to VLC this year to >> add panorama playing capabilities there in a joint project that the two >> organizations have tried to set up since last year. >> >> * Zoran (2007) went on mentoring in 2008 and is still around despite >> being very busy in his new job. >> >> Out of five 2007 students that's not bad. Of the other two students one >> was a superstar. Her code is great. She has moved on. The other one we >> had to fail, but it was a good learning experience for both. He >> completed his 2008 GSoC project with another organization successfully, >> and we learn to introduce the patch requorement. >> >> >> * Marko (2008) still around, integrated his code long after GSoC was over. >> >> * James (2008) still contributing fixes. Integrated his code long after >> GSoC was over. >> >> * Tim (2008) ready to be a mentor or a student this year, depending what >> occasion arises, and still contributing. Integrated his code long after >> GSoC was over. >> >> * Fahim (2008) still active on his branch with the masking code. It's >> our shortcoming that his code is not integrated in Hugin yet because we >> do not really know how to evolve the user interface to make use of the >> advanced tool he developed. >> >> * Onur (2008), who with Zoran has worked on one of the most demanding >> projects of ours, and is still around but busy with his academic career. >> Right now we'd need somebody to pull the strings together and bind his >> project, with Zoran's 2007 project, into the Holy Grail of a patent-free >> control points generator. >> >> Out of five 2008 students. Well, there was a sixth, together with VLC, >> but he desisted because he got a full time job. We hope to catch up on >> that project with León who is applying to VLC this year. > > That is an impressive result. I am really fully surprised. >> I rather give one of the slots available to a deserving student - to >> somebody like Lukáš who was too young for GSoC 2007 and became a >> frequent contributor and committer without expecting us to be accepted >> as a GSoC 2008 mentoring organization and without expecting to be >> selected. Or to one of the students who have shown interest, passion, >> curiosity and humility (Dev, Irena, Joe, Yulia, and please forgive me if >> I forgot somebody of those who joined this mailing list in the last week). > > It si your right to choose and I wish them good luck. But Why should I > write proposal if i do not have a chance of being accepted? > >> And I rather give a slot back to Google for allocation to a more >> deserving student at another project, than waste Google's money and the >> time of my fellow mentors on somebody who does not seem mature enough in >> my judgment. > It is all same here, I am not going to give a slot, I am going to give > my work to someone. >> Wow, that was a long email! I felt angry when I started the reply. I >> feel better now. Should I hit the "send" button? I think so. I am still >> inclined to black-list you, but I may be wrong. Maybe you will see what >> in your attitude is incompatible with this community? Feel free to come >> back any time you want, the door is not closed. In the meantime I share >> this exchange from our mailing list, conveniently stored at >> <http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx/browse_thread/thread/e02061a1555edd56> >> with the other mentoring organization. Just that they know who they are >> dealing with in case you apply there too. > > Well that is other part of it. I think it is stab in the back, because > I cannot explain myself to the other mentor. I can explain them that > my attitude could be different to their organization than to yours. > (Right I should have answer into hugin email list and than unsuscribe, > but now, I am not going to subscribe back do not worry). Because, > hopefully, they would appriciate students work more than you. > You are right I did not realized, that hugin email list is stored on > the net. If I did, I would answer into the list, so my answer would be > stored as well. > > Jan >> Yuv >> > > Jan Kastil > [email protected] --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hugin and other free panoramic software" group. 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