Re: [HG-new] Re: Affordable Hurdy Gurdy Construction

[Kazimierz Verkmastare]

Tony   You kind of make my point.   50 years of woodworking and metalworking experience, several instruments, this hardly qualifies you as an amateur craftsman, perhaps only an unexperienced gurdy builder, but with an engineering education and that much experience you are NOT the typical amateur.  And no, I am not using the income indicator as a definition, I am using the quality of work and experience indicator.   Almost everyone who has written has made a clear statement that if you are an experienced woodworker with sufficient tools and materials skills you CAN make a servicable instrument.  We are telling folks who for the most part start out saying that they are only limited in skill and resources that it is a better idea for them to buy then build.  You are a far cry from the average garage shop craftsman, and so am I.  I have built many, many instruments from kantele to gurdy and nyckleharp, I have never had this as my main source of income, and I build professional level instruments of many kinds.  I have been trained as a fine woodworker since I could walk, I inherited all the tools of both my grandfathers and my father, I have large supplies of materials and resources and knowledge and information, and I did build a successful gurdy my first time (though limited, it is a 4 string (2 drone, 2 chanter, no chein)) instrument that is NOT up to par with the more fully featured instruments.   And yes, I could build and am currently working on a fine, fully featured instrument in a 'disguise' of a late medieval piece from a lesser known Bosch painting (the one with the satyr playing the gurdy).  It is a project done for enjoyment, and because I am wasting resources as I am building knowledge, it is NOT going to be significantly more economical than if I had commissioned it.  But, like you, I am a very experienced craftsman, not an amateur.  I might say that if I had the specific HG experience of Eaton or Nagy or any of those whose profession is building fine instruments, I could easily match their quality and eye-ear appeal in a short time, as I believe I have 100% of the skills in place, just none of the specific knowledge.  But again, I, as you, are an exception.   Augusto is correct, for most people.  It is not building a supercollider, it is only building a complex musical instrument, and not beyond most humans abilities, if they choose to invest the time, money, and effort AND if they really have an interest in building it for more than money's sake.  If you look at the beautiful instrument that Patrick Bouffant plays on most of his youtube videos, and you want one like that, be ready to invest in your journey to build it probably as much as it would cost to buy it (unless you already have most of that investment in skills building, tool acquisition, and materials stock - then you have simply already spent it, it doesn't count any less in the completion of the project).   So sir, I am not going to slap you in the head.  But I will advise you to realize that you ARE a professional in all the ways that really matter - income only counts when you are talking about athletes.  So those of us who are experienced builders would never advise you not to build, you have everything that you need, and everything we needed, to guarantee a reasonable chance of success.  But our comments are not for craftsmen with engineering backgrounds and a half century of experience in everything including lutherie.  Our warnings are for those who are not close to your level of skill and experience, your level of 'professionalism'.   To them I still say - if you are more into the experience than anything else, jump right in.  But if you want a fine instrument and you are NOT close to the level of experience and education of say, Tony, then it is probably a much more reasonable idea to buy than to build.  But if the main thing that attracts you is the idea of mastering this instrument mechanically as well as musically, and you understand that it will end up expensive (the cost is truly inversely proportional to your skill and resources), then by all means go ahead, it is rewarding and cool.   Just don't expect to try to find the cheap way to the same instrument others pay thousands for and have it work out for you, sure, people win Publisher's Clearing House every year, but it isn't something that happens to everybody, not even everybody who wants it and spends a lot of time trying.   Chris > On 26/10/2011 1:47 p.m., Augusto de Ornellas Abreu wrote: > >> You can build your own. But do it for your own amusement, for the >> sake of the journey, NOT TO SAVE MONEY. >> >> that was my only point, but somehow it hasn't gone through to >> many yet... >> > At the risk of getting my head slapped here......You are assuming > that your right? > > I don't see why a professional builder is able to do a successful > job and an amateur not able to do so. > We/you are assuming that all pros. are expert and all amateurs are, > to a degree less able. > > I've seen a few posts here decrying some of the professional > builders with a veiled warning to beginners to avoid some products > which indicates that there is an opinion that there is varying > degree of skill amoung the pro builders. > > I have built my own HG (didn't turn out too well I must admit but > the second was 100% better) as well as quite a few guitars, banjos > and fiddles and other more complex instruments but as an 'amateur' > (meaning it's not my main source of income)   I am somehow not able > to make a 'decent' HG?...at a reasonable cost? > > Sorry but I've been making 'things' of both wood and metal for over > 50 years and take a little offense at being told that I am unable > to build something purely because I'm an amateur (I was an > engineer). > > The truth is that a HG is complex and a pain to build but no more > so than many other items. Ever tried building a harpsichord, a > Nyckelharpa or a Hardanger fiddle? > > My opinion is that as a folk instrument it should be built by folk > and played by folk for folk. > My voice has been known to make grown men cry but that dosn't stop > me singing publicly any more than it stopped Johny Cash or Pete > Seeger. > > He should build his instrument  and play it with pride. The cost > will be a fraction of a professional instrument and the sound will > be not far off either....certainly better than my voice I'm betting > and lets face it....who will know the difference between a great > sound and a mediocre one? > > Our music is for the folk, played alone in your room or for the > masses....leave the snobbery for the whiskey and wine and let us > get on with our music. > > Regards, TonyNZ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hurdygurdy" group. 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