Re: [HG-new] Re: Affordable Hurdy Gurdy Construction

[Kazimierz Verkmastare]

There seems to be a non-argument argument going on about this topic.  There are several levels of gurdys, and several levels of music to be played.  I for one am quite satisfied with my very first sinphone, as far as playing quasi-medieval and simple Celtic and faked Breton folk music goes it does well.  But I wouldn't dare try to play some of the more complicated dance stuff.  And if you gave it to Giles or Patrick and asked them, they would probably politely say "It is a very nice instrument' and fiddle around on it for a while getting the most out of it's potential, but they would never want to use it to perform.  And that is OK.   Because simply, I built a wheel fiddle with a tangent keybox, and it works fine.  But I have heard and played around on really good gurdies, and mine simply doesn't compare in any real valuable way.  There are things about a full-featured gurdy that cannot be accomplished without professional fit and finish, without hundreds or thousands of hours of research and experimentation (or at least access to someone who already has the answers and is willing to help).  So what I built is more of a gurdy than your typical HGLO, but it is not a fine instrument.  And a fine instrument is what a lot of players want when they start, because they want the nuance, the undertones, the life that they hear coming from a good instrument, not the well-intoned and just-tempered professional cat torture noises that are the sounds produced by a simple wheel fiddle.   I watch the videos of Patrick and Giles and Melissa and others who play well on full-featured gurdies, and I realize that I am going to have to either buy or build a better instrument before I can fulfill my dream of playing the things that only gurdies (not simple wheel-fiddles) can play.  It is sort of like saying you built a really great Moraharp.  If what you want to play is the music of the 1600's and you are satisfied with the limitations of the instrument, then you succeeded, but you did not build a really nice example of what the world considers a nyckleharp.  And such it is, in my experience, with the early examples of individuals handmade gurdies.  And if you are not looking to improve fit and finish and features, you stay at the level of building nice, but inherantly limited, instruments that are imminently suitable for the more basic roles.   This is not to belittle first-time builders, the work most produce is better by far than some of the cheaper 'production' instruments or earlier kits would ever be.  But until you get your hands on a professionally build, professionally engineered full featured gurdy (not the high-end stuff, but most makers midrange instruments) and actually spend some time experiencing firsthand the nearly limitless possibilities from one of these instruments, you won't be able to properly categorize your own work or know how to improve it.  I know, I was crushed when I had to actually compare my sinphone to a real full-featured gurdy.  Took a while for me to become happy with my instrument again, but only with the realization that it does what I need it to do very well, but doesn't do what I want ultimately to do at all.   So I think the statements being made here are for those who are more player than builder, or at least equal parts of both.  When you approach the gurdy with the idea that you ultimately want to be a performer the level of Patrick or Giles, then you want the ultimate from your instrument, and it is nearly impossible to build as an amateur an instrument of this quality on a ridiculously low budget and without a bunch of tools.  But if you are a tinkerer, and like to build something that works and your musical and performance goals aren't as lofty as the aforementioned pros, then your chances of meeting your expectations suddenly increase.   I for one am an avid craftsman who wants the best gurdy that can be made, and don't want to buy it because I simply need to (part of my genetics, I guess) be responsible for the design and construction of this modern masterpiece.  I have been working on my opus for several years now, working, fitting, reworking, refining, learning, getting close to finished and throwing the whole thing away and starting over, and I know that I have piled 2 or 3 times the money in materials, tools, and time into this thing than it would have cost to buy a great gurdy from a pro.  Each of my projects would have yielded an instrument imminently playable and exponentially better than my current sinphone, and even unfinished they have been of value.  But as none would lead to what I want out of this next gurdy, there was no use putting more investment into them.   So here it is in a nutshell.  A tinkerer can build a nice folk/pirate/'Celtic' simple wheel fiddle with nice tone and the ability to play to a certain level, and can expect to be able to build it first try with some tinkering, and if that is your ultimate goal, then you will be 100% satisfied.  A tinkerer will most likely not build a full featured, professionally balanced and voiced instrument that suits the needs of higher end performers until building and experimenting with a whole lot of not-up-to-par instruments, and along the way will discover that Gurdy makers do not make an obscene profit, their raw budget is usually more than most folks want to spend on a finished instrument, and the margin is close.     A high-level performer, wanting a great instrument, does not have the same odds of creating one himself first (or fifth, for that matter), especially if the prime consideration is budgetary.     The individual who wants desperately to build an instrument that provides sounds similar to the things they hear on CD, because of the novelty or uniqueness of the instrument, can build a functional 'hurdy gurdy sound generator' without too much fuss, but it won't generate every HG sound, or do so with the quality of a professional instrument.  But it will satisfy the majority of fiddlers.   But the individual addicted to craftwork, who is also driven to own and use the best instruments to the best of his abilities, will fail or succeed on the merits of his determination and the limits of his wallet.  The professionals came mostly from this group, and if you are in this group, you already know the answer to "is there an affordable way to build a really good HG".  It is simply "How affordable is a couple of thousand or more dollars to your budget?"   Chris > Just jumping in on this, I have built several hurdy-gurdies from > scratch. Only the first one had playing issues. I use only typical > shop tools that most garage tinkerers would have around (antique > table say, Chinese scroll saw, small Chinese drill press and small > bench sander and a bunch of basic hand tools, and some homemade > spool clamps. I have less into my shop tools than most people pay > for a new hurdy-gurdy from a reputable builder, and I can use them > over and over for other projects. I have never spent more than $150 > dollars for instrument parts, and have not spent more than three or > four months of three to six hour days about four days a week on > building one. It is fun and only requires a modest amount of > woodworking skill and a lot of patience. Anyone who has heard my > hurdy-gurdy I've been playing since 2000 > can vouch for the sound quality. The looks are a bit primitive > compared to the fit and finish of someone who does this for a > living, but it does have a rather cool handmade folk look to it. > Perfect for the corner beggar-man hurdy-gurdy player. Besides that, > it was fun to build! > > > Dave in Michigan > > > The Hurdy-Gurdy Man, > > > From: Steven Tucker <steven.tuc...@gmail.com> > To: hurdygurdy@googlegroups.com > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 4:16 PM > Subject: Re: [HG-new] Re: Affordable Hurdy Gurdy Construction That > is a very curious statement to make: That it will cost a lot of > money to make your own instrument. > > I'm fairly certain that most hurdy gurdies made in the last > thousand years prior to the 1950s were all made with hand tools -- > probably just a few saws, a carving knife, and maybe a gouge or > two.  Sure, you can use a 10,000 dollar band saw to cut the wood, > but a hand made Bow Saw will work just fine.  It will take about > twenty times longer is all. > > > Perhaps you're also accounting for time spent.  With expensive > specialized tools and jigs a professional builder might take 20 to > 200 hours building an instrument (depending on the "add-ons" such > as inlay).  A beginning woodworker with a couple of hand tools > might expect to spend 50 to 500 hundred hours building a relatively > simple instrument. > > > So if you are one of those people who believe that the only > instrument worth having is one with superior craftsmanship,  > exquisite detail work, a flawless mirror finish, and a famous > maker's name, then you'll just have to pay the big money.  If > you're a musician and just want a great sounding personal > instrument (and don't have a rich uncle or girlfriend) then I say > grab the tools you have, gather the materials you can find and > start putting in some hours. > > > -S > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Augusto de Ornellas Abreu > <augusto.ornel...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Just be prepared to spend a lot more than the cost of a luthier- >> made gurdy if you want to build your own. >> > You will have to go through many fumbled attempts when building > each of the pieces, you will have to make your own specialized > tools, you will need to get a hold of some expensive equipment to > make those tools and many of the specialized parts (you can save by > buying some more difficult parts from HGCrafters, etc, for example) > >> > Building a gurdy from scratch makes no sense if you think about > cost only. You will probably spend way more than if you just bought > one from a maker. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "hurdygurdy" group. > To post to this group, send email to hurdygurdy@googlegroups.com To > unsubscribe from this group, send email to > hurdygurdy+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit > this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy   The rules > of posting, courtesy, and other list information may be found at > http://hurdygurdy.com/mailinglist/index.htm.  To reduce spam, posts > from new subscribers are held pending approval by the webmaster. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hurdygurdy" group. To post to this group, send email to hurdygurdy@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hurdygurdy+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy   The rules of posting, courtesy, and other list information may be found at http://hurdygurdy.com/mailinglist/index.htm. To reduce spam, posts from new subscribers are held pending approval by the webmaster.