To all reacting to my mail on the Aachen (medieval hurdy gurdy), Thank you very much for the very interesting reactions. At this moment I am on holiday and have just a moment for reading the email. Afterwards I will answer. Moreover, I will be at the festival of Chateau d'Ars on saturday and sunday with the Aachen (leaving it at the stand of Chris Allen and Sabina).
With kind regarfds Ernic 2012/6/28, michael <[email protected]>: > > > _____ > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 28 June 2012 08:24 > To: Digest Recipients > Subject: [HG-new] Digest for [email protected] - 2 Messages in 2 > Topics > > Today's Topic Summary > Group: <http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/topics> > http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/topics > * Digest for [email protected] - 8 > Messages in 2 Topics [1 Update] > * strings [1 Update] > <http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/t/f672087fe08de95e> Digest for > [email protected] - 8 Messages in 2 Topics > "michael" <[email protected]> Jun 27 09:05PM +0100 > > _____ > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 27 June 2012 08:54 > To: Digest Recipients > Subject: [HG-new] Digest for [email protected] - 8 Messages in 2 > Topics > > Today's Topic Summary > Group: <http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/topics> > http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/topics > * a medieval hurdy gurdy - Youtube clips [4 > Updates] > * Breathalizers and hurdy-gurdies [4 Updates] > <http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/t/69bbfa5ecb47005e> a medieval > hurdy gurdy - Youtube clips > Ernic Kamerich <[email protected]> Jun 26 08:09AM +0200 > > For playing medieval music on hurdy gurdy, solo and in consorts, I have > been using a box hurdy gurdy. It has a nice sound that mixes very well with > singers, medieval fiddles, recorders, etc. It does so much better than most > modern hurdy gurdies, (modern hurdy-gurdies are larger instruments of the > early 18th cent form and can be set up to play quietly and sweetly.. In > period > performance, however, it is more appealing to have a model of the period) > but it is rather modest in character and loudness. > Moreover, box hurdy gurdies seem to have been rare in the middle ages: most > paintings and sculptures with a hurdy gurdy show an instrument that looks > rather much like a fiddle with a wheel. Which no doubt it is – vielle a roue > = wheel fiddle. > > With my combined interest in medieval (and renaissance) music, which I play > in consorts (the term consort is normally reserved for a group of > instruments of the same type > but at different pitches, such as consort of viols or recorders.) already > nearly 40 years, and in bourdon music, especially of the hurdy gurdy, I > wished to get a medieval hurdy gurdy. However, apart from the organistrum, > which surely is not a melody+drone instrument but meant to supply a variable > drone in parallel organum to a melody, and the box hurdy gurdy, often called > with the general medieval name for hurdy- > gurdy, "symphonie", none of the renowned makers of hurdy gurdies offered > such an instrument. Symphony means sounding together. De oldest type I have > seen is of about 1500 after the > "Garden of earthly delights" of Jeroen Bosch or comparable. The organistrum > may be tuned in various ways, just like our modern instrument. It may be > used to play a drone only, organum melody, or drone only, as in our > successful recording ‘a Feather on the Breath of God’ or a monody which can > be lively, with one or more drones,. > The Santiago type is large and sounds an octave lower than normal. (I sell > plans for > this.) The players are often depicted as singing and it seems likely that > the > instrument was used for teaching the new tunes which were sent around > Europe > by the Vatican. As Europe developed culturally the organistrum was replaced > by the organ (And see pp 4-6 of The Hurdy-gurdy Method). Odo’s drawing is > suspect, seeming to be a copy of a copy. The details are never right in > these drawings, being copied and re-copied from chap books by scribes who > did not know the instrument at first hand. > > I could persuade Chris Allen and Sabina Kormylo (http://www.hurdygurdy.org) > to make a medieval hurdy gurdy for me. First we discussed more than a year > on model and many details, then they started and last summer it got ready. > It was a thrilling moment when I got the instrument in my hands: I knew > rather well what I wanted to hear, what character I had hoped for. It was a > revelation: it was even better. It is really a wonderful instrument for > medieval music, a joy to play. I have a ‘square’ sinfonye which is 4o years > old. The earliest repros were too small owing to a misinterpretation of the > iconography. > > Now I have been making some recordings and uploaded them on Youtube, one > well known piece, La Manfredina, and some clips demonstrating and > explaining the instrument (some not ready at this moment). I hope that > these clips are worth while both for who has a general interest as for who > knows already more about the subject. Yes, very interesting. Michael > Muskett > > - La Manfredina > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR_R3FhkQ4E > > - A medieval hurdy gurdy 1: introduction > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0J41t_XV5g > > - A medieval hurdy gurdy 2: early history - the drone > > (not ready at this moment) > > - A medieval hurdy gurdy 3: sound and model > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1KmZuU-dw > > - A medieval hurdy gurdy 4: playing modal music - strings > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ciEmQOZlAs > > - A medieval hurdy gurdy 5: repertoire - range and available accidentals > > (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hAvGYyrKCY) > > - A medieval hurdy gurdy 6: a buzz string on a medieval hurdy gurdy? > > (not ready at this moment) > > - A medieval hurdy gurdy 7: temperament > > (not ready at this moment) > > I would like to draw your attention you for this. > > With kind regards > > Ernic Kamerich (Doede de Draaier) > > Wolodymyr Smishkewych <[email protected]> Jun 26 12:14PM > +0100 > > Dear Ernic, > > Many thanks for your message and for the YouTube links. It is wonderful to > hear about the Aachen and your role in developing it with Chris and Sabina; > I have been considering getting their sinfonie and it is very good to know > that perhaps this might be an option as well. > > Many thoughts have always been on my mind regarding the issue of the HG in > the medieval, and what we now do in our "early music ensembles." The > instrument which I play with ensemble Sequentia is one developed in > conjunction with my brother Eugene Smishkewych, and it is based on the body > of instruments found on the porticoes of the cathedrals in Leon, Burgos, > and > Burgo de Osma (you can google "smishkewych & smishkewych organistrum" and > see images of it). It, too, is an amalgam of various hypothesis and > desires, > and even such an instrument which could be described as "limited" in range > or use fulfills the needs we ask of it in the ensemble. This comes, of > course, of limiting its use to its capabilities, but I also included some > individual, anachronistic additions, such as a release-capo to provide the > subfinalis on the melody string, and it has many more keys than on the > models in stone. It is in that sense based on the order of gamut-tangents > such as in Odo of Cluny's drawing, so it includes B and Bb (or in the case > f > concrete pitches, F and F#) at the top of the octave, which makes my > instrument in effect have the range F-G-a-b-c-d-e-f-f#-g. > > I have often considered that what we ask of these reproductions and > reconstructions of medieval instruments is o informed by our present-day > needs and wants that they depart from being reconstructions--which can be > OK > so long as we acknowledge it. We are even in our music--perhaps especially > so in our music-making!--representing really only what our 21st century, > present-day imaginations can make of artifacts and a collective memory of > something approaching a "Repertoire." I use that word with caution, because > of course the HG has both everything and nothing as a repertoire when it > comes to the medieval. It can be sued on so much, and to it belongs so > little (pretty much nothing). 'La Manfredina' fits beautifully on the > "Aachen", and now so does 'Ghaëtta', thanks to the chromatic key-option you > requested of the makers. But would 'Ghaëtta' ever have been played by a HG > player, a 'sinfoniator'? Not likely, but perhaps s/he dreamt of the option, > whereas a fidula or tibia (bagpipe) or fistula (flute) player would have > been able to and not so restricted by the instrument, since chromatic > alterations were easier to achieve. The instrument was possibly both unable > to respond to trends and faithful to its original conceptions by its nature > (that of a vocal accompaniment instrument). And of course there is the > important consideration that we now respond very much more to the > dance-element of medieval music and our modern culture has much less > patience for the poetic, slower, (and often sung) repertoire. We are > forever > making rationales (I have been guilty of this myself!) for cutting numbers > of verses (e.g. "public will not listen or have patience," > "presenter/radio/CD needs X amount of minutes," etc) and the audience > always > seems to want sets or concerts to end with "Drums and fun." These are of > course all modern considerations and since they often involve our > livelihoods we definitely respond to them, but they are still of our times > as far as we can tell. It is not to say they were not ideas present in the > medieval but we cannot see that far back with any clarity and can only make > our best educated assumptions. > > Nonetheless, it is wonderful that you are adding to the possibilities > available for medieval HGs. I myself have considered the sinfonie as I > mentioned above, as well as one that was reconstructed by Antonio Poves > (http://www.organistrum.com/ap.htm), based on a triptych from the > monasteria > de Piedra in Zaragoza. These instruments have similar constructions and > they > appear to head from the concept of making "organum sine magister" to a more > melodic use of the instrument. > > But even so, the concept of a medieval HG as solely an instrumental > enterprise is an intriguing and difficult one. We could quote the > miniatures > from the Cantigas to say "there is an example of sinfonias playing alone" > but there is always the problem that the Cantigas miniatures were likely > meant more as an encyclopedia cataloguing the many things going on at > Alfonso's court, a veritable propaganda book for his kingdom as much as a > valuable codex of songs (but even that was a state-sponsored sort of > ethnomusicological enterprise). So truly, while this is all of great > interest and use to us today, we must take so much of it with the > proverbial > "grain of salt." > > I am interested in knowing more of the balance of the "Aachen:" how well > does it work as an instrument accompanying singing? Is it too loud for > accompanying solo singing, but could it work for ensemble singing, such as > we do in the Sequentia men's ensemble (5-6 voices)? > > In the end what we ask of our HG choice is to do what we want it to do > best. > I don't play certain types of music, so I don't need certain features on my > instrument, and adding them on would take away from something else I value, > which is the ability to have an instrument that responds to my approach to > studying history and performing music that has a certain historical > context. > I respect that many other musicians have the need and desire to play > multiple repertoires and in various concert contexts and therefore I think > it is great that all of these options are open, and even better that we > continue to push the envelope in all directions. > > Thank you though, Ernic, for adding to the "medieval corner" which often > gets a bit hidden or obscured by other influences in our HG world! I look > forward to being in touch! > > All best, > Vlad > > > On 26 Jun 2012, at 07:09, Ernic Kamerich wrote: > > > Wolodymyr Smishkewych <[email protected]> Jun 26 12:15PM > +0100 > > OOps! Sorry all, I intended that to be a private response to Ernic. Somehow > the HG group name isn't visible propeorly in my "to" field...Oh well, now > you all have my homily for your entertainment. > > Have a great week! > Vlad > > On 26 Jun 2012, at 12:14, Wolodymyr Smishkewych wrote: > > > Margarita Rankin <[email protected]> Jun 26 06:33PM -0500 > > As a sinfonia player myself, I enjoyed that. Nothing to be sorry about! > > --Margarita > On Jun 26, 2012 6:15 AM, "Wolodymyr Smishkewych" < > > <http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/t/2885d9c0b98c83f0> > Breathalizers and hurdy-gurdies > JULIE BARKER <[email protected]> Jun 26 05:32PM +0100 > > This might at first seem a long way off topic but in view of the fact that > some of us hope to go to France for the gurdy festival season it might just > be relevent. > I have heard that from 1st July it is to become law for every car to carry > a > breathalizer. Does anyone out there know about this? I remember a few years > ago they introduced the hi-viz jacket rule at what seemed like short > notice. > > Philip G Martin aka Drohne > www.drohne.co.uk > > cwhill <[email protected]> Jun 26 06:16PM +0100 > > Yes, that's quite correct. From 1st July you must carry a portable one > if you are driving in France. It's NOT a joke. The fine for not having > one is 11Euro! > You can buy them at the channel ports. The good news is that they are > only a couple of pounds (limit in France is 50mg per 100ml of blood (30 > lower than the UK). > You also need more than one (if you use it, you won't be legal unless > you still have an unused one in the car). > You are not required to actually use it, of course, just to have one in > the car! > > http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1073607_france-decrees-mandatory-breathal > yzers-in-all-cars-by-july-1 > > Colin Hill > > > On 26/06/2012 17:32, JULIE BARKER wrote: > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5094 - Release Date: 06/26/12 > > cwhill <[email protected]> Jun 26 06:18PM +0100 > > Yes, that's quite correct. From 1st July you must carry a portable one > if you are driving in France. It's NOT a joke. The fine for not having > one is 11Euro! > You can buy them at the channel ports. The good news is that they are > only a couple of pounds (limit in France is 50mg per 100ml of blood (30 > lower than the UK). > You also need more than one (if you use it, you won't be legal unless > you still have an unused one in the car). > You are not required to actually use it, of course, just to have one in > the car! > > http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1073607_france-decrees-mandatory-breathal > yzers-in-all-cars-by-july-1 > > Colin Hill > > > On 26/06/2012 17:32, JULIE BARKER wrote: > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5094 - Release Date: 06/26/12 > > cwhill <[email protected]> Jun 26 06:24PM +0100 > > Apologies for the multiple replies. Didn't notice the same message was > posted to several groups as CC and I just hit reply on the ones I'm a > member of so they all came through here (first named group)! Sorry. > > Colin Hill > > > On 26/06/2012 17:32, JULIE BARKER wrote: > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2437/5094 - Release Date: 06/26/12 > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group > hurdygurdy. > You can <mailto:[email protected]> post via email. > To unsubscribe from this group, > <mailto:[email protected]> send an empty message. > For more options, <http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/topics> visit > this group. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "hurdygurdy" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy > > The rules of posting, courtesy, and other list information may be found at > http://hurdygurdy.com/mailinglist/index.htm. To reduce spam, posts from new > subscribers are held pending approval by the webmaster. > > <http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/t/9edb89343c775c72> strings > Paul Sherwood <[email protected]> Jun 27 05:10PM +0100 > > Sorry for the slow reply, I have only used nylgut for the high d chanter. > They are sold with an 'equivalent gut' specification, see > > http://www.aquilacorde.com/index.php?option=com_content > <http://www.aquilacorde.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66%3Athick-nylgut-strings&catid=11%3Athick-nylgut-strings&Itemid=240<=en> > &view=article&id=66%3Athick-nylgut-strings&catid=11%3Athick-nylgut-strings&Itemid=240〈=en > > Paul > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group > hurdygurdy. > You can <mailto:[email protected]> post via email. > To unsubscribe from this group, > <mailto:[email protected]> send an empty message. > For more options, <http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/topics> visit > this group. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "hurdygurdy" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy > > The rules of posting, courtesy, and other list information may be found at > http://hurdygurdy.com/mailinglist/index.htm. To reduce spam, posts from new > subscribers are held pending approval by the webmaster. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "hurdygurdy" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy > > The rules of posting, courtesy, and other list information may be found at > http://hurdygurdy.com/mailinglist/index.htm. To reduce spam, posts from new > subscribers are held pending approval by the webmaster. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hurdygurdy" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy The rules of posting, courtesy, and other list information may be found at http://hurdygurdy.com/mailinglist/index.htm. To reduce spam, posts from new subscribers are held pending approval by the webmaster.
